RE: Lois Bird (nee Hill) Gloucestershire

janbooth · 03-03-2015, 9:54 AM

I have been going back reading your original thread of Elizabeth BIRD and as it is highly likely that your John BIRD had a Non-conformist baptism, it could well be that both he and wife Lois had Non-conformist burials somewhere, which might explain the difficulty in finding their burials. The nearest death registration I can find for John BIRD is at Dursley in the June qtr 1847, which could be him if the newspaper article was incorrect about his death date and if the 1st July was perhaps his burial date. Not that this helps to find either of their burials one little bit!!

Janet

Cockney-Sparra · 03-03-2015, 4:06 PM

Hi Janet,
I saw that death reg June 1847 and think you could be right. There is another John Bird that was born around the same time, the 1845 burial was probably his, not my John. I can only find one John Bird/Tallow Chandler in the area, so the 1847 death must be my John. I'll order that death cert to be sure.
My 'Birds' were Non-Conformists. They were all baptized at The Old Meeting House, Wotton-Under-Edge as Presbyterians but their Marriages don't seem to have been Non-Conformists. I haven't ben able to find a death for my Elizabeth either but she went under different names - I find her as Bird, Dew and Richardson. The Removal Order was really confusing, she is Elizabeth Dew, wife of the late William, married at Fulham. It then describes her late husband (as if he was the Fulham William Amos Dew) but it was my William Richardson, my 2x Gt Grandfather who was from Leicestershire. I don't know why she is using the name Dew in 1867 when she was with my William RICHARDSON and going by the name Richardson from at least 1855. I can't find any Marriage certs for her at all. 2 Chidren are named on the order but I can't make out the names, although, the ages fit my Gt Grandmother Mary Jane Caroline Richardson and her younger brother, James Charles Richardson.
My lot are so elusive and strange goings on.
Thanks for all your help...

janbooth · 04-03-2015, 9:52 AM

I think, if memory serves me correct, that marriages in a non-conformist establishment were illegal until registration began and even then you had to have a special licence and the non-conformist establishment had to have a licence to perform marriages, so I suppose the majority of marriages would still take place in a Church of England or Catholic church. I think I am more or less correct, but I am sure you can Google it to confirm the dates. However, it may well be that christenings and burials took place in a non-conformist establishment. Although Ancestry seem to have non-conformist birth/baptisms in Wotton, I cannot find any deaths/burials on their website, so perhaps that is why we haven't managed to find any burial records for both Lois & John BIRD.

Janet

Cockney-Sparra · 04-03-2015, 3:01 PM

Hi Janet,
I've ordered the 1847 death cert for John and I've emailed the Wotton-Under-Edge Historical Society. They have CD's of Non Conformist Burials etc but I'm not sure what ones to order, it gets a bit involved for my novice brain haha. I've asked if they can recommend which will help me.
Thanks again...

janbooth · 05-03-2015, 11:58 AM

Good luck and do let us know how you get on.

Janet

Cockney-Sparra · 12-03-2015, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by janbooth

Good luck and do let us know how you get on.

Janet

Hi Janet,
Just received John Bird's Death Cert - Your hunch was right - He died on 28th June 1847 (reg on the 30th), his Daughter Lois Bird registered the death. So it could be he was buried on the 1st July.
She gives his age at death as 54 but he would've been 55 at death, 56 in the Aug. I've checked for any births in Wotton for 1792 and there's only one, he was born in Stroud which is about 10 miles from Dursley. I'm hoping I have the correct baptism for my John and that his daughter was a year out when registering the death. In the 1841 Census, John gives his birth year as 1786 but that is my John. is it looks like they may not have been certain if his birth year. Do you think I have the right birth for him?
Got me all confused again arrrrghhh .
I've heard back from the Wotton society and they're going to do a search for burials for John & Lois :-)

Wilkes_ml · 12-03-2015, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cockney-Sparra

Hi Lesley,
It's the 1841 Census and doesn't state the relationship between them. ...Only thing is, in the Census she's listed as not being born in the Parish

The 1841 census didn't say whether they were born in the parish or not, it states whether they were born in the County {of Gloucestershire} or not, and of course some people would say yes, when they weren't.

Also, the ages in the 1841 census anyone over the age of 15 would have their ages rounded down i.e. a 49 year old would be rounded down to 45. And some listed as 45 could be anything between 45 and 49! Even then, the ages were not always correctly rounded, and some enumerators recorded exact ages for everyone. Even if an age appears to be an exact age rather than a rounded age, it may not be accurate.

I am also working on families from the Gloucester, Dursley & Cam area, and my families also seemed to be non-conformist. And as has been mentioned above, non-conformists still had to marry in the parish church. Non conformist baptisms seem to be covered by Ancestry and also Find My Past now, but I also couldn't find burials of Lois or John BIRD. I also can not find my non-conformist burials either, so I suspect that some burial registers didn't make it to the National Archives, and may still be with the churches.

Gloucester parish registers are now on Ancestry, and Find My Past are putting the Cam area registers on first (though they only have the very early registers available so far), but it is still best to search through their registers manually rather than rely on their index and transcriptions.....I've already had to correct one marriage entry where the name of the Groom was indexed as "Lower Swell" which was actually the parish he was from!!!

I suspect it may also be a good idea to search the non-conformist registers manually, as I do not have any faith in the transcription & indexes.

Wilkes_ml · 12-03-2015, 4:44 PM

I forgot to add that my ancester died in Gloucester workhouse in 1868, and I believe he was seperated from his wife for over a decade, so expected him to have a pauper's burial rather than a non-conformist one, but when I am searching for his burial, I'll keep an eye out for any BIRDs...they may turn up one day!