Florence Johnson

[valg]

In 1886 my Grandad was born along with a twin sister.

This twin was not know amongst family so we have to assume she died early.
My dad never mentioned her even though he talked about his dads other siblings ofter, I don't think he knew about Florence, I have spoken with older cousins and they had never heard of her either.
Was only discovered when I was applying for my Grandads birth cert.
So what happened to Florence.
Born 20 Feb 1886
Baptised 6 August 1886 St Clement Greenheys Lancs ( Another mystery as the later children were baptised Catholic and my dad always said his father was Catholic)
So we know she didn't die straight after birth.
My Grandfathers family are no where to be found on the 1891 census unfortunately, even after extensive searching.
She is not with the family in 1901.
RG13; Piece: 3702; Folio: 39; Page: 33

Mother Margaret brn Ireland 1867-unmarried
Siblings
Percy-twin.1886 Salford
Wilfred -1896 Salford
May -1898 Workhouse Withington

So they were in Salford at least until 1896.
1901 they are in Sth Manchester Chorlton

I have all the relevant certificates.

I have applied for 2 death certs for Florence so far. Both wrong

28 June 1886 ( applied before I found the baptism) 7 monhths
28 June 1890 Chorlton age 3 years

I have checked Manchester burials online records at Manchester City Council, no luck. I have matched the 4 burials I found from 1886-1906 and ages don't match up.

I gave a thought to her maybe having left home and gone into service by 1901, she would have been 15, but the fact my dad or cousins knew nothing of her makes me doubt this, they appeared to be a close
family.

Any help or ideas appreciated....or I will just have to keep ordering certificates..

Maybe some members have access to other burial records.

[pwholt]

Sometimes family only answer direct questions. I researched my father in law's family for 5 years or more before I stumbled across an older brother who had died aged 15. When I asked about this, the response was "Do you mean Frankie? He died." So although I was told dad was one of 10 many times, the final tally was 17, including those who died in infancy and youth.

I notice a gap between Percy and Wilfred, and you say they can't be found in 1891 census. Might they have been out of the country? Either Ireland or North America? I would be expecting perhaps 5 more children in the gap. Florence might have died while they were elsewhere, and thus the burial/death won't be found in English records. pwholt

[Peter Goodey]

Why St Clement Greenheys? What address is shown on the baptism and can you tie it up with anything else?

[Megan Roberts]

Having read your post I wondered whether Withington Workhouse might hold the key. After a bit of searching on line I found their death register at Findmypast and they have the following entry:

Florence Johnson born 1887 (age 53) died Jan 1940.

If Florence had a problem, physical or otherwise, she might have been left at the workhouse and stayed there all her life. Alternatively this might be a complete red herring, ......................................

[Sumi]

The 1911 census asks for number of children born alive and nuimber of children who have died. Poor Florence isn't even counted....it says 3 born alive and 3 still alive. If she was a single Mum with twins in 1886 maybe it was just too much for her and Florence was adopted and never mentioned again.

Sue

[Peter Goodey]

Interesting point, Sue.

Can Val please confirm that she does have both certificates and that they definitely show the two children as twins. Are the two certificates identical except for the name and the time of birth?

[valg]

Peter.Yes I have both birth certs..identical except for times of birth
Baptism....Home address 1 Lowdnes Street. As they are not found on 1891 census can't really tie the address to anything else..
The baptism puzzled me as I know Percy was brought up Catholic as were the other children.


pwholt..Yes large gap between Percy and Wilfred, Margaret was a single mother, no proof to ever suggest she was married even though she calls herself a widow, I assume Percy had a diff dad to Wilfred and May hence the gap, I have all the children's birth certs, I have checked for other births between Percy and Wilfred but none found, my dad only ever mentioned Wilfred and May.i know my dad would have mentioned if he knew his father had a twin.

[valg]

Sum I Yes that is a possibility..she was only 19, but she was baptised with Percy at 6 months of age.. I would have thought if this was the case Margaret would have given her up earlier

[valg]

Megan...That's another scenario anything is possible

[valg]

The 1911 census was completed by my Grandad Percy... This is where, as noted by Sumi, besides Gt Grans name he notes 3 children born 3 children living.. This is another reason I think he knew nothing of his twin Florence