Help! Catherine Guthrie Watson born abt 1871.

[MichelePhillips]

I’m hoping someone can help me find the parents of my great grandmother, Catherine Guthrie Watson, who was born in Blyth, Northumberland abt 1871.
I can find no information on her that pre-dates her marriage.
She died in 1954 in Middlesbrough, a year after I was born, and it makes me sad that I know so little about a woman who held me as a baby.
My Mum told me that Catherine was illegitimate and brought up by her father’s family. She doesn’t know if it was by her father and a step-mother or by her father’s parents.
Here’s what I know from her marriage cert and the 1901 and 1911 censuses.
She was a 21yo spinster who married Edward Thomas Farrow (25), a bachelor and baker, on December 5, 1892 at the parish church in Middlesbrough, Yorkshire.
She was living at 167 Stockton St, Middlesbrough at the time.
Her father was John George Guthrie Watson, corn miller, deceased.
One of the witnesses (and possibly the man who gave her away) was Anthony Hill Howson, born 1851.
In 1872 Anthony married Sarah Elizabeth Guthrie, who was born abt 1855 in Blyth, Northumberland.
I think there’s a strong connection here - Catherine named her first child Sarah Elizabeth.
I wondered if Sarah Elizabeth Guthrie could be Catherine’s mother, giving birth to her at age 16.
But that goes against what is on the marriage cert - the Guthrie Watson name is in the father’s line.
I’ve searched every name, occupation and date combination I can think of on Ancestry and FMP (I’m so obsessed I coughed up for both), as well as Family Search, FreeREG, FreeBMD and FreeCEN.
I can find nothing on Catherine before 1892, and no trace of John George Guthrie Watson at all.
I’d be very grateful for any ideas on where I can go from here (other than flying the 12,000 miles to Middlesbrough!).
Is it worth buying a bunch of birth certs on the off chance?
I’m loath to do it because there are more Catherine Watsons than you can shake a stick at.
Thanks for bearing with me this far,
Michele

[Pam Downes]

Further details
1901 census
RG13/4807 folio25 page 41. Living in Walker, Northumberland.
Edward Farrow, 34, labourer in shipyard, Burnham (the enumerator/his boss has added Lincs but that's wrong. Might be Norfolk. Is Norfolk - see 1911 census. )
Catherine, 28, Blyth
Sarah E, 7, Middlesborough
Ernest, 6, Middlesborough
Jane G, 4, Middlesborough
George W, 2, Walker
Jessie A, 7 months, Walker

In 1911 the family are in Middlesborough, lodgers in the household of Henry Lavender and his wife Sarah Elizabeth (nee Farrow), Henry and Sarah married March quarter 1911, Middlesborough registration district
RG14/29285 SN192

Edward, 46, casual laber (sic), Norfolk
Cathrine (sic), 39, Blyth
Jane G, 14, Middlesborough
Georgie, 12, Walker
Jessie A, 10, Walker
Jenny, 6, Middlesborough
Edward T, Middlesborough
Robert W, Middlesborough

Edward and Sarah have had eight children, one died. Presumably Ernest.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

This would seem to be Anthony Hill Howson and Sarah in 1881.
RG11/4963 folio 21 page 6. Civil parish of St Nicholas, Durham

William Howson, mar, 50, engineer, Barnard Castle, Durham
Anthony H, son, 29, engineer, Durham City
Sarah E, daughter-in-law, 26, Blyth
Margaret E, daur, 18, Durham City

1891
Anthony and Sarah seem to be living apart.

Anthony on board the SS Fitzwilliam, in Bristol docks. RG12/1959 folio 145 (no page number)
Anthony Howson, chief engineer, mar, 39, engineer, Durham City

(As an aside, Ancestry have described Anthony's relationship of chief engineer as 'Child Evyimon' )

Sarah meanwhile seems to be in London.
RG12/296 folio 13 page 20. Civil parish of Limehouse.
Sarah E Howson, head, mar, 35, wife, Blyth
Jennie, daur, 8, Middlesborough

1901

RG13/4582 folio 148 page 4. (part of) Civil parish of Middlesborough
Anthony Howson, 48, engineer (fitter), Durham
Elizabeth (sic), 45, Blyth
Annie Guthrie, niece, 7, Middlesborough
Joseph Duncan, visitor, mar, 21, engineer (fitter), Middlesborough
Jennie Duncan, visitor, mar 18, Middlesborough.
Jennie actually the daughter of Anthony and Sarah.
She married Joseph Duncan March quarter 1901, Middlesborough registration district

Pam

[MichelePhillips]

Thanks Pam, I didn't think to include the census details.
Ernest Farrow was a joiner's apprentice staying with George and Hannah Blanchard in Lund, Yorkshire on the night of the 1911 census.
He was killed on the Western Front in 1915.
I haven't been able to find the name of the child who died.
Catherine was pregnant with my grandmother Evelyn May Farrow on the night the 1911 census was taken.
Evelyn was born in 1911 in Lizzie (Sarah Elizabeth) and Henry Lavender's house.
Shortly after Evelyn married in 1930, Catherine and Edward moved in with them and stayed there until their deaths - 1954 and 1937 respectively.
My Mum remembers she kept a framed photo by her bed of a man very formally dressed and said it was her father who was a sea captain.
Since looking into Anthony Hill Howson's background, I'm wondering if it was him, not her Dad.
Also, my Mum is 82 and her memory isn't what it used to be.
Michele.

[Pam Downes]

Bearing in mind that illegitimate children were often given their father's surname as a middle name, and that sometimes (twice in my family) their parents married after the birth, I'm intrigued by the marriage of a John Thomas Guthrie, March quarter 1873 Newcastle on Tyne registration district, with a Sarah Watson on the same page.
Yeah! Good old Familysearch - marriage 1 March 1873 St Ann's Newcastle on Tyne to Sarah Watson.
John's father Ralph Guthrie. 'Other' (presumably a witness) Alexander Young.

Drat! I've got to go out - just when this is getting exciting.
1861 census RG9/3850 folio 13 page 19.
John T Guthrie, mar, 31, corn miller
Mary E, wife, 30,
Daughter Sarah, and son John.
Ralph Guthrie, father.

There's a death for a John Thomas Guthrie, aged 47, in 1876, Tynemouth registration district.

Possible birth registration - Catherine Watson, March quarter 1872, Tynemouth registration district.

Will investigate more when I get back about 4/5 o'clock. (Unless someone steals my thunder in the meantime. )

Pam

[geneius]

(Unless someone steals my thunder in the meantime. )

Wouldn't dream of that Pam!

Jx

[MichelePhillips]

Bloody hell Pam, you're amazing.
Sarah Elizabeth Guthrie was Catherine's half-sister.
If I could do a little dance and type at the same time, I'd be doing it right now.
I've just woken up after falling asleep in front of the telly, so I'm off to bed.
I'll get back onto it in the morning.
I can't thank you enough - you're a star.
Michele.

[Pam Downes]

Wouldn't dream of that Pam!

Jx

Think I should have let you steal my thunder after all.
Now I'm the one who's got to prove everything, and join all the dots. And I have a feeling that I might end up cross-eyed at the end of it!

Though I've just twigged this bit

Sarah Elizabeth Guthrie was Catherine's half-sister.

fits with the Sarah Elizabeth Guthrie mentioned in Michele's first post who marries Anthony Hill Howson, so I reckon that's the connection that I needed to make.

Familysearch to the rescue again.
Marriage 3 June 1872, St Edmund's, Gateshead, Anthony Hill Howson and Sarah Elizabeth Guthrie.
Bride's father, John Thomas Guthrie.

I forgot to say that in 1861 John Thomas Guthrie and family were living in Cowpen, Northumberland.

1871
RG10/5052 folio 53 page 22. Civil parish of Gateshead.
John T Guthrie, widower, 41, flour mill [something illegible] dresser, Gateshead, Durham
Sarah E, daur, 17, housekeeper, Blyth
John George, son, 13, scholar, Blyth
Mary, daur, 6, scholar, Blyth
Ralph, father, widower, 61, shoemaker. (Think his birthplace says 'Kent Ipswich', but the only Ipswich I know is in Suffolk, and the name certainly doesn't appear in an alleged list of all the towns and parishes in Kent on Genuki. 1861 census says Essex, and 1851 census says Ipswich Suffolk.)

See post # 5 re a likely death registration for John Thomas Guthrie in 1876. (December quarter).

There's also a death registration for a Sarah Guthrie aged 47 in September quarter 1877 in Newcastle, but there's also a load of possible re-marriages plus some further deaths up to 1901.

To me therefore, the next thing for Michele to do is to order the marriage certificate for John Thomas Guthrie and Sarah Watson
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
and then keep everything tightly crossed that proper ages are given for the bride and groom, not just 'of full age'.

I would also order the death certificate for the John registered in 1876, just to confirm that it is 'our' John.

Meanwhile, the search for Catherine Guthrie Watson on the 1881 and 1891 census continues.
Because she's not listed at any time as being with Sarah Elizabeth (nee Guthrie) and Anthony Howson.

Pam

[geneius]

Think I should have let you steal my thunder after all.

Why? You are doing great on it!

Jx

[Pam Downes]

Suppose we ought to officially kill off John's wife, Mary, who was 30 in the 1861 census.

Death registration for a Mary Elizabeth Guthrie, aged 38, June quarter 1869 Gateshead registration district.

Bringing the other Guthries forward from 1871.

Death registration for Ralph, aged 64, September quarter 1874 Gateshead registration district.

1881 census
Think Mary, aged 17 born Blythe, is a house maid, domestic servant living in Egglescliffe.
RG11/4893 folio 15 page 11

John junior is not so easy to locate as there's a couple of plain 'John's.
I think the most likely is the one living in Middlesborough, aged 22 and says he was born in Newcastle.
RG11/4851 folio 44 page 28.

Pam