HMS Cressey - sunk September 1914

[Pam Downes]

I see on FreeBMD that George H Perry married Margaret Lovett in 1913 in West Ham.

The Navy record for him on FMP gives his number as K 1245, not 1425 as mentioned in message 1. DOB 18 Oct 1889 in Bow, London.
The 1901 census has 29 George Perrys, but only 1 was born in Bow. He's 14, living with his parents, Ephraim & Harriett in St Mary Stratford Bow, London. Dad's a fish monger. There's 6 kids. You can see the census data on Ancestry - ask your library if they have access, or which other library in your area has it. FMP has transcripts.

The George & Margaret marriage certificate should confirm (or not) that Ephraim was his father.

Going by dad's occupation in 1901, how about this one for George in 1911?
George Perry, head, 23, single, fish monger, born Bethnal Green. RG14/1420 SN410.

Ephraim and Harriet are living in Great Yarmouth in 1911. RG14/11080 SN215

Pam

[JoyceGwendoline]

Thank you Lesley - you can see I am having a lot of help here. I have to have a close look at the information that is being given to me and check to see if I have any clues in the paperwork that I have to confirm any of the leads. Many thanks - Joyce

[JoyceGwendoline]

Thank you Pam - I should be able to get my paperwork out this evening to see if there are any clues to tie up any of the information. Once again - thank you for your help. Joyce

[JoyceGwendoline]

Pam I now have my father’s birth certificate which gives his birth address as 17 Vicarage Road Stratford. I have looked for this address in the 1911 census to establish who was living there on that date but have not been able to find the address as yet - neither on Find My Past nor The Genealogists - the two sites I subscribe to. However, quite by accident I found a Henry Charles Perry living at 17 Vicarage Road, West Ham in the 1901 census (Daisey Irene Rose Perry Archive reference RG13 Piece No. 1567 Folio 10 Page 11 Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census).

In the 1911 Census Henry Charles has moved with his family to East Stonehouse in Devon. In the 1881 Census, Henry Charles is living with his birth family (father Joseph - born in Plymouth) in Littlehampton. One of the brothers is shown as Joseph William and I am thinking that MAYBE (if I am not stretching coincidence too far) when Henry Charles went to Devon between 1901 and 1911, his brother Joseph William (I think maybe calling himself William because of his father being called Joseph (born 1869) in the house and also known merely as William in the 1891 census) moved his family into 17 Vicarage Road and that his son George Henry (my dad's father and my grandfather) on his marriage to Maggie (Margaret Lovett my grandmother) moved her into his family home 17 Vicarage Road (which I had thought was her family home previously) whilst he was away in the Navy.

If this is all correct, Joseph (born 1836) before becoming a coast guard seems to have been in the Navy as an able seaman on HMS Curlew in Plymouth.

The references that I am following are:

Devon 1841 Census Joseph Perry born 1835(6) HO107/0269/7/F44 CD11 HO_269b.pdf p.53

Devon 1851 Census Joseph Perrey (Perry) 1836 HO107/1879/-F458

Sussex 1871 Census Joseph W Perry 1869 RG10/1109/F CD5 RG10/1109/F CD5 RG10_1109.pdf p.157 (Littlehampton – see Henry Charles Perry 1901 Census)

Sussex 1881 Census Joseph William 1869 RG11/1120/F RG11_1120.pdf p.138

Essex 1891 Census (Joseph) William Perry 1868 (1869) RG12/1349/F CD3RG12_1349.pdf p.250

Essex 1901 Census Henry Charles Perry 1873 (born Littlehampton) found on search for Daisey Irene Rose RG13 1567 Folio 10 Page 11.
This family living at 17 Vicarage Road, West Ham, the birth address of my father George Henry Perry 2nd August 1914 – is all this just coincidence?

Devon 1911 Census Henry Charles 1872 Ref: RG14 – PN13010 RD277 SD1 ED6 SN66.

Essex 1911 Census Joseph 1836 Ref: RG14 – PN9418 RD188 SD3 ED8 SN277.

If you can help with what I need to do/where I need to go next to confirm or dismiss the above I should be grateful for some direction – thank you. Joyce

[Pam Downes]

Hi Joyce,

First the good/bad news.
I've found who's living at 17 Vicarage Road, Stratford (parish of West Ham), in 1911. Edward Linden, aged 51, and his son Edward. RG14/9406 SN 345
(You don't need all the other bits of the reference - just RG14 to signify it's the 1911 census, the piece number, and the SN - schedule number - for that particular household.)

Whilst on the subject of census refs, some of the ones you've quoted are incomplete. For 1851 - 1901 you need the year designator - HO107, or RG9/10/11/12/13 - then the piece number, folio number and page number. Just as you've written the 1901 entry for Henry Charles. Not a problem on BG, but there will be if you want to record stuff accurately in a database.
1841 is the same except that there's a book number to add between the piece and folio number.

For information only (to save me/anyone else looking it up again) as this may not be relevant
William Joseph Perry, now known as plain Joseph, in the 1911 census is living in Plaistow. RG14/9432 SN106. Address 10 Second Avenue, Plaistow.
Key details of occupation -compositor, birthplace Plymouth - match 1891 census when he's living with brother Henry, plus parents. Age one year out.
Married 19 years, wife Agnes born Bethnal Green.
Marriage likely to be December quarter 1891, Bethnal Green registration district, to Agnes Eliza Allen.

1901 census - RG13/1646 folio 39 page 5
Joseph W Perry, aged 32, Printer's compositor, born Plymouth.

Still going with these Perrys, but I'm now thinking that Henry Charles living in Vicarage Road in 1901 is just one of those amazing coincidences.

Fact: When George Henry married in 1913 he said his father was William, a labourer.
Possibility: George told the truth; knowlingy lied; or didn't have a clue to the true facts so invented those details.
Fact: He said he was 22. Therefore born 1890/1891.

Fact: William Joseph/Joseph, brother to Henry Charles who lived in Vicarage Road in 1901, was a compositor/worked for printers.
Fact: He was not married in 1890, only marrying in the last quarter of 1891, so probably not the father of George Henry born 1890/1891.

Does George Henry give an address on his marriage certificate in 1913?

Pam

[JoyceGwendoline]

Pam - thank you for the time you have spent on this. Your last sentence is my problem - the address on the marriage certificate is HMS Aeolus and the naval documents I have been able to get hold of so far do not give an address on signing up! I think I may have to give up on him and concentrate on other relations until I have had the opportunity of a get together with other relations who might just know something. Kind regards - Joyce

[Pam Downes]

I had a horrible feeling that George's address would be that of his ship.
Information which you actually gave in post #1. Me bad for not noticing when I re-read (though very quickly, I must admit!) the thread looking for it.

Pam
(who's now off to sit on the naughty step )