Welsh Regiment

[Toony1]

Hi
I have been trying to research my family history for some time with little progress.

My grandfather served in the 11th Welsh Regiment as it says this on my fathers
birth certificate (born 1916) - I believe he went to France/Belgium
on 14th August 2014 as he was an already serving soldier when he may have been in the 2nd Welsh Regiment.

Despite having his service number, I cannot identify him on Forces War Records.

Whilst I am of course interested in his Great War activities - I am particularly interested
in his postings prior to the World War.

Any suggestions that don't involve professional researchers or spending hundreds of £'s?

[Pam Downes]

Hello Toony1,

Welcome to British-Genealogy.

By 'I am particularly interested in his postings prior to the World War' do you mean that your grandfather was a regular soldier? If so, do you know if he was still in the army in 1921/1922? If so (depending on his rank) then his service records will still be with the MoD. Details of how to apply can be found here.

If he 'retired' prior to 1921/1922, then you need to know that over 60% of WW1 were destroyed by fire and bombs in WW2. The service records that survive can be found on Ancestry and at The National Archives, with some also on Findmypast.
Your local library may have free access to one or both of those sites. You can also take a free 14-day trial on both sites but you need to make sure that you cancel the 'renewal' in good time.

If you'd like to post a name and service number, then we can have a look to see if we can find any records to help.

Pam

[Toony1]

Hi Pam and thanks for your response.
My father was born in January 1916 and his birth certificate gives the
details of his Father as: Robert Rowden James, Sergeant, D. Company, 11th Welsh regiment 7139
I have a copy of the information held on Ancestry although it is a little sparse of any real details.

I do not know if he remained in the army post WW1 although I suspect not, as he had a young and growing family.

The main focus is on his pre-war service because he had a son, born out of marriage but with his future wife, my grandmother.
The child was born somewhere between 1910 and 1912 when they married. I can only think that he was away on duty and
could not therefore marry before the birth of the child. I have never been able to identify my grandmother on ancestry or any
other web based family history site - without her birth record I am unable to progress with my family research.

To know where he was based/or posted would narrow the field somewhat or atleast I hope it will.

If I can't find a way around the current blockage, I will have to wait for the publication of the 1921 census which seems such
a long way off.

If you can give any assistance or suggest a new line of research, I would be most grateful.

[Pam Downes]

The only details I could find about your grandfather's service record was the Medals Index Roll, which as you correctly said 'are a little sparse of any real details'.

Do I presume that you have his marriage certificate and for his occupation it says 'soldier'?

I've found his birth registration, but that was no help in searching for a Robert (Rowden) James born 1881 in Pembrokeshire in either the 1891 or 1901 census.
However, whilst typing, I've also carried on searching and I've finally found him on the 1911 census.
Robert James, aged 29, soldier, born Pembroke. Census ref RG14/33163 SN9999. Llanion Barracks, Pembroke Dock.

The census image isn't entirely clear but to me it looks as if the person completing the schedule has joined up a 2 and a B as if it's supposed to be 2nd Battalion Welch(sic) Regiment. The General or other officer commanding was Brigadier General F A Curteis.

If you have the 1912 marriage certificate what details re age, address, and father's name/occupation does it give for Jane?
If you don't have Robert on the earlier census, what details are given for his father's name/occupation? Though by far the best way of finding him is to send for his birth certificate. (If you want to know how to apply for certificates, yell. )


Pam

[Toony1]

Hi Pam
I am amazed but very grateful for your support and assistance with something that I have been grappling with for a long time.

I have both Roberts Birth Certificate and Marriage Certificate.

Details are:
Birth - 11th March 1881 - Lower Lane Pembroke U.S.D. - which I believe is near Carew.
Mother Mary James (Davies) Father Henry James - Dock Labourer

I have the census record for 1911 showing Robert at Pembroke Dock.

His marriage certificate gives the following detail:
December 2nd 1912
Robert Rowden James - Age 31 - Bachelor - Miner - Residence 30 Homfray Street, Nantyffyllon (Maesteg)
Wife: Amy Elvira Richards - Age 29 - Spinster - Residence 86 High Street, Nantyffyllon - Father Evan Richards - Deceased

My father Christopher Robert James - was born January 4th 1916 - he had 2 older brothers John born in 1914 and Clifford born sometime prior to the marriage in 1912. I have no further details on Clifford and am not sure if Clifford is his first or middle name. As he was born prior to the marriage his surname would have had to be his mothers which is Richards.

I have identified a Clifford Richards born in Bridgend but the birth certificate shows the mother is not Amy.

Without details of where she was from - it is like searching the proverbial haystick for a needle.
Which is why Roberts army service becomes quite important. I cannot believe that Robert would not have married earlier if he was able to and therefore can only assume he must have been away on training or active duty.

The 1911 census puts him in Pembroke Dock - which I have assumed means that this is the probable area that Amy lived/worked in.
I believe that the Welsh Regiment went to Liverpool in 1911 to break a strike by the Dockers - not sure if Robert was involved in this, although if he was and they were sent on from Liverpool rather than returning to Pembroke Dock - this could cover the relevant period.

It is my fathers birth certificate that has provided Roberts army information - Sergeant D Company, 11th Welsh Regiment, Army No. 7139 (Coal Hewer).

I have completed the documentation for a copy of Roberts Service Record and will send this off once I am sure that I am requesting all of the information I need/want.

Once again many thanks for any help you can give.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam
I am amazed but very grateful for your support and assistance with something that I have been grappling with for a long time.

I have completed the documentation for a copy of Roberts Service Record and will send this off once I am sure that I am requesting all of the information I need/want.

Once again many thanks for any help you can give.

I would suggest that you don't send for Robert's service record.

I only gave you the details in case he was possibly a regular soldier, but from what you now say I don't think he was.
1911 census - soldier.
1912 marriage - miner
1916 son's birth - soldier - but remember this was wartime.

So I would say he was either a regular soldier (reservist??) sometime between 1900 and 1912.
Then he left the army, but rejoined (possibly called-up?) the army during the war.
When the war finished, he left, and returned to his normal job of miner/hewer.

Been looking for Amy with no success whatsoever.

If you scroll down the forums to 'General chatter' I've posted about an offer on Findmypast of a month's sub for a quid. If you're not already a subscriber/have free access to Ancestry or FMP, it might be worth investing in a month's sub and seeing what you think about the entry for John Clifford Richards, born 1911 Bridgend.

FMP also have a load of Welsh parish registers, under the name 'The Wales Collection'.

Pam

[Megan Roberts]

Robert Rowden James was baptised 15 April 1881 at St. Michael’s Pembroke, and he was the son of Henry and Mary, who were living at Lower Lamphey Lane, and Henry was a labourer.

In the 1881 Census the family is living at: Lower Lane, Pembroke St Michael, Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, (Piece number:5410 / Folio:51 / Page:15) and they have 5 sons, excluding Robert. Henry was born 1852 in Pembroke, and Mary in 1850 in Carew. The eldest son is 9 suggesting a marriage about 1870.

In Jul 1872 Banns were read at Carew for a Henry James and a Mary Davies. Both were single, and Henry was from Pembroke and Mary from Carew. I can’t find a marriage record in church, but there is a civil registration in Pembroke.

There is a possible match for Henry James in the 1871 Census: Thomas Street Orange Gardens, St Mary, Pembroke (Piece number:5515 / Folio:25 / Page:8), which if correct makes his parents Thomas (born 1807 in Warren, Pembrokeshire and a labourer), and Sarah (born 1823 in Castlemartin, Pembrokeshire).

1891 the family is living in Bridgend: John Street, Higher Llangynwyd, Bridgend, Glamorganshire (Piece number:4449 / Folio:35 / Page:14), but this gives the ages of his parents differently from before (1846 and 1845), however as his mother’s place of birth is Carew, I feel that it is correct.

There is a possible military one for him in 1901: Ipswich a Gunner Royal Field Arty, (Piece number:1776 / Folio:186 / Page:2), however, if could also be him boarding in Pontypridd and working below ground: 111, Court Street, Ystradyfodwg, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire (Piece number:5016 / Folio:115 / Page:22).

In 1901 his parents and some siblings are living at 30, Homfray Street, Maesteg, Llangynwyd Higher, Bridgend (Piece number:5040 / Folio:93 / Page:46).

In the 1911 census there is a family who head is Albert James from Pembrokeshire and a coal hewer who are living at 59 Maiden Street Cwmfelin, Middle Llangynwyd, Glamorganshire, and who have a baby called Robert Rowden James.

A possible birth for Clifford might be David C James Jul qtr 1912 registered Bridgend, Volume 11a Page 1831, mother’s name “Richards”.

[Megan Roberts]

There is a possible baptism for Mary Davies (James) in Carew on 12 Apr 1847 to Elizabeth and Thomas Davies.

[Toony1]

Thanks Megan
I will pursue the Bridgend Birth in 1912 as it is not one that I have come across previously.

Albert James - was my Grandfathers (Robert Rowden) brother - the younger Robert Rowden being his nephew.
Not yet sure where the Rowden name came from as it is quite unusual.

It has however continued to be used as I have a cousin called John Rowden James.

[Toony1]

Again Many Thanks Pam.
I will have a look at the Findmypast website - I have been a member in the past.

Marjorie