Walter James Stanners

[Rex Stanners]

My grandfather, Walter James Stanners enlisted with the Royal Scots when he was 17, probably in 1915. For 6 months he served as a gaurd at a Scottish sea port, name unknown, and then he went to Gallipoli. I do not know his regiment or service number or when he was discharged.
He was born in Carriden on Dec 27, 1897. His mother died when he was about 3 years old and his father emigrated to New Zealand when he was about 8. His grandparents brought him and his brother up in Bo'ness.
I cannot find any record of his military life in the few genealogy sites that I have searched, including Forces War Records, and am hoping that someone with more experience can give me some direction.
Thanks, Rex in NZ.

[christanel]

Welcome to British-Genealogy Rex

The first thing I do when trying to find a serviceman from WW1 is to search for their Medal Roll Index card as this is the best chance you have of finding anything. This is because 60% plus of WW1 service records were destroyed by bombs/fire in WW11.
Medal Roll Index Cards are on pay per view site ancestry and The National Archives also has them for a small fee. However at the moment you can search and view on ancestry for free until the end of the year.
I have already taken a look but can't find a card for a Walter James Stanners/ Walter J Stanners/ Walter Stanners.
When I just enter W Stanners 2 results but they are for an Adam A W and a Thomas W Stanners.

Without a regiment or service number it is very difficult. You could try searching on ancestry yourself to see if you can find a Medal Roll Card

Christina

[simmo1]

Hi

This is probably him - https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...mageViewerLink
which says-

Medal card of Stanners, Walter

Corps

Regiment No

Rank

Royal Scots 250707 Private
Royal Scots 2768 Private

Note it is also on Ancestry, but wrongly index under Royal Scots Fusiliers!
It shows he entered Balkans in 1915 with the 5/6 Royal Scots , see here - https://www.1914-1918.net/royalscots.htm and https://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/theatrecodes.html
Being a Territorial shows he was renumbered - https://www.1914-1918.net/tf.htm
Cant see any service records, but go through this guide - https://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/research.html
He was entitled to trio of medals and was discharged (says Disembodied on card)
Does the date 15/1/65 have any significance to him?

regards

Robert

[Rex Stanners]

Thanks Christina. I also have my grandfather from my mother's side to research, so I'll use your advice when I get to him.
Cheers, Rex.

[Rex Stanners]

Thanks Robert. I haven't fully reviewed what you have given me here, but I'll probably have a few more questions to fully understand what you've found.
Cheers, Rex.

[Rex Stanners]

Hi Robert.
I've had a good look at what you sent me and have a few questions which you may be able to answer.
His medal card shows he entered the Balkans on 24/5/15, but the Royal Scots summary says they went to Gallipoli on 15 April 1915. Do you think that he may have been held back for a month or are the dates more likely to be wrong on one or both documents?
He began to write his memoirs but didn't get very far. But he did say that he landed at Cape Helles in May or June, so the medal card date seems more likely.
From what is available on the links you gave me, I don't think I can find out where or when he was as a territorial. He says in the memoir that he faked his age to be able to go overseas, so would I be correct in assuming that he began as a territorial at 16 or 17 and when he was accepted as a regular he was issued a new number and joined the 1/5th Battalion? I am assuming the 1/5th over the 1/6th because of the reference to the Balkans.
The Royal Scots summary is short on details after their deployment to Egypt and the Balkans because they seem to have become the 14th Brigade, 32nd Division. Is there a link to the movements of this unit?
The date 15/1/65 means nothing to me. His birthday was in December, he died in 1968 and emigrated to NZ in 1920/21.
Thanks in advance.
Rex Stanners

[SueNSW]

Rex - you may need a real expert on the regiment to hopefully sort out his numbering/movements - maybe try the Great War Forum where a lot of the members have done serious in depth research. Without a service record, the available information is a bit confusing/conflicting

In the meantime - from the Long Long Trail website - it appears that 5/6 Royal Scots was formed in France 15th June 1916 from an amalgamation of 1/5 + 1/6 - both Territorial battalions who were part of Scottish Coastal Defences in the early part of the war before they went overseas

The 6 digit numbers for Territorials were issued in 1917 and Walter's new no was in a block allocated to 5th Battalion

As you have worked out, the 6th battalion didn't go to Gallipoli - so it seems to suggest he was there with the 5th - but if the date of entry on his medal card is correct - he was likely a reinforcement as the major part of the battalion landed on the first day - 25th April

The transcription of his entry from the medal roll confirms his service as 2768 with the 5th battalion - but also has him in 1/7 at some point as 250707. They were in the middle east from Jan 1916 till April 1918 when they landed in Marseilles

At the moment the NA only has Western Front War Diaries digitised but you can download the following

https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/C7353595 - 1/5 - 1/3/1916 - 30/6/1916
https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/C7353762 - 5/6 - 1/6/1916 to 28/2/1919

for GBP3.30 each. He is not likely to be named but they should give you an idea of what was going on

Hope this helps a little and hasn't further muddied the waters

[Rex Stanners]

Thanks Sue.
The plot thickens but I also learn something new every time I ask a question. Being fairly new at this genealogy game, I'm a bit over reliant on experts like yourself and others. Hope you don't mind the questions.
Regards,
Rex Stanners

[simmo1]

HI Rex

I agree with Sue, he was probably a reinforcement, and as you say with his diary, he landed later when the regiment was already there.
I agree with him being with the 5th at Gallipoli.
When he joined up (and that date is unknown without his service records) he was issued the service number 2768, but LLT has this -
1/5th Battalion (Queen's Edinburgh Rifles)
August 1914 : in Forrest Hill, Edinburgh. Part of Lothian Brigade, Scottish Coast Defences.
11 March 1915 : transferred to 88th Brigade, 29th Division at Leamington Spa.
Sailed from Avonmouth 20 March 1915, going via Egypt to Gallipoli 25 April 1915.
So he would have joined after August 14 (also given his age he may have stretched the truth to get in!!) and as the battalion was a Territorial one - here is a bit more on them - https://www.1914-1918.net/tf.htm , he was still a territorial, but obviously signed the overseas service form. He still had the same service number, that was only changed in 1917 when all were renumbered.

With the 1965 date, obviously someone accessed his records then for some reason.

Hope this helps.

This is the 5th RS war diary for Gallipoli- https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/C7357776
Don't bother asking for a quote unless you have a big bank account, but you can go there and view it!!

regards

Robert

[SueNSW]

This is the 5th RS war diary for Gallipoli- https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/C7357776
Don't bother asking for a quote unless you have a big bank account, but you can go there and view it!!

regards

Robert

Ha Ha Robert - as Rex lives in NZ - a copy from the NA might actually be cheaper than a trip to Britain!!

I reckon the the NA might well get around to digitising the Dardanelles war diaries some time next year to mark the 100th anniversary - but in the meantime there is a reasonable account of the Royal Scots TF battalions here - https://www.theroyalscots.co.uk/page/...mpaign-1915-16

A quick search certainly shows questions on the GWF about the 1/5 battalion so might well be worth Rex having a look over there