Mathews family from Chelsham Surrey

[Wilkes_ml]

In 1881, James is aged 51 and still a farm labourer and born Chelsham, Sarah is aged 57, born Godstone. They have a daughter Celia Matthews aged 18 and son James aged 11

In 1891, James & Sarah are still living in Chelsham with their married son James & Daughter in law Lavinia (mis-spelt as Laffina). The Sarah dies between 1891 and 1901 as James is still residing with James & Lavinia and there growing family.

So going by these census entries, it looks likely that most of the children have more than one name which they switch between, which was quite common in those days.

[Wilkes_ml]

looking for the birth registrations in the Godstone registration district which is where Alice Maud's birth was registered, many of her siblings are there, but some don't appear with 2 names, so I'm beginning to wonder if the father filled in the enumerators census form, but forgot the names of his children (also not that uncommon!)

Hannah Matthews baptised 17th April 1845 at Chelsham birth registered June quarter 1845 Godstone reg district. Death registered March Quarter 1848

Elizabeth Matthews baptised 12th July 1846 at Chelsham. Birth registered Dec quarter 1846 Godstone reg district

Emma Matthews baptised 18th February 1849 at Chelsham. Birth registered March quarter 1849 Godstone registration district

Thomas William Matthews baptised 10th August 1851 at Chelsham. Birth registered september quarter 1851 Godstone registration district

Job Matthews baptised 18th June 1854 at Chelsham. Birth registered March Quarter 1854 Godstone registration district

Mary Anne baptised 27th July 1856 at Chelsham. Birth registered June Quarter 1856 Godstone registration district. death registered march Quarter 1862 Godstone registration district

Dora (or Sarah?) Matthews baptised 18th December 1859. birth registered ??????

Celia Matthews (lised as Clara in census) baptised 6th September 1863. Birth registered September Quarter 1863 Godstone registration district

Alice Maud birth registered December Quarter 1865

James Henry Matthews birth registered March quarter 1870

[kitties]

I was going by the fact that Alice/Maud consistantly gave her place of birth as Chelsham, so in Chelsham in 1851 there is :
James MATTHEWS, an agricultural labourer, age 30, born Chelsham, and Sarah age 25 (born Godstone) with daughters Elizabeth age 4 and Emma age 2

Then in 1861, again at Chelsham were:

James MATTHEWS an agricultural labourer, aged 40 born Chelsham
Sarah wife age 36 born Godstone
Emma daughter aged 12 born Chelsham
Thomas aged 9 born Chelsham
Mary Anna aged 4 born Chelsham
Sarah aged 18 months? born Chelsham

then again in 1871 at Chelsham :

James aged 51 born Chelsham, an agricultural labourer
Sarah, wife aged 46, born Godstone
Joab? son (should be Thomas!) age 18 born Chelsham
Mary Ann daughter age 15 born Chelsham
Dora daughter age 13 born Chelsham
Clara daughter aged 8 born Chelsham
Maud daughter aged 5 born Chelsham
James son aged 1 born Chelsham


so I think this family is more likely to tie in with Jame's occupation being an agricultural labourer, rather than the miller James.

Than k you for the I formation you have sent to me , I also think James was a labourer rather than a miller. I must xend off for some certificates which would you reccomend that I send for. Many thanks.

[kitties]

So the first place to start would be looking at the marriage certificate of Alice Maud MATTHEWS and Thomas BEST. There is a marriage (available on Ancestry) at St. Pauls Church Warlingham, Surrey of Thomas George Best a labourer (father not listed) and Alice Maud MATTHEWS daughter of James MATTHEWS a labourer..November 2nd? 1884 (date smudged badly in original).

So, next place to look (if you haven't already done so) would be the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census to identify or confirm Alice Maud's place of birth.

Thank you for the information you sent to me. I see that they have st Pauls Church as Warlingham when actually it is in Woldi gham Surrey. Ancestry seem to have made a mistake. Anyway thank you for all of your help.

[Wilkes_ml]

I would suggest getting the birth certificate for your direct ancester Alice Maud, as it is always best to follow your direct line. Usually the only time you need to buy birth certificates of more siblings is either

a) there is some uncertainty about the mothers maiden name. i.e. you can't find a marriage of the parents (I had a case where the mother gave her maiden name as Cornwall/Cornwell on 3 birth certificates, but on the fourth one I bought it gave "late BULL formerly CORNWELL" and she had indeed been previously married and widowed, which I wouldn't have known if I had gone by the first 3 childrens certificates)


or b) if you can't find the family in one (or more) census and a sibling born close to a census year may help identify their adress, though this doesn't always help if the family were very mobile.

[Pam Downes]

Thank you for the information you sent to me. I see that they have st Pauls Church as Warlingham when actually it is in Woldi gham Surrey. Ancestry seem to have made a mistake. Anyway thank you for all of your help.

As you say, St Pauls is in Woldingham, but the marriage of Alice Maud Matthews definitely took place at Warlingham.
Michelle has (unsurprisingly, given the vicar's scribble ) mistaken the words 'the parish' at the top of the parish register for 'St Pauls'. It's actually All Saints, Warlingham.

Pam
who also thought it said 'St Pauls' till she looked closer

[kitties]

Thank you all the information you have sent me.
I am also trying to find some information on Alice Mary Colyer who married Herbert Gander in about 1930 from the east end of London or Essex.
she died in about 1962. Who were her parents and did she have any brothers or sisters. How many children did she have ?? Are they still alive.

[christanel]

Marriages June 1/4 1930
FreeBMD has her marriage with the surnames Cooper and Colyer
Colyer Alice M
Cooper Alice M
Herbert S Gander
Hampstead 1a/1651

They appear to have had 6 children including a set of twins. We can't post their names here because they are possibly still living and our AUP does not allow us to post details of living people.
If you go to FreeBMD, enter Gander in the first surname space then Colyer in the mother's maiden name box, 1930 and 1960 in the date boxes you will get the results giving the births.
There is a public tree on ancestry which shows her in 1911 census and her marriage to Gander but no children or date of death for her. They give his date of death as 1975 in Southend, Essex
1911
5 Sidney Street, Somers Town, St Pancras
Arthur Colyer 33 Motor car worker born Swanley Junction
Minnie L Colyer 32 St Pancras
William C Colyer 14 St Pancras vanguard
Florance R Colyer 12 St Pancras
Edith Colyer 8 St Pancras
Arthur W Colyer 7 St Pancras
Robert E Colyer 5 St Pancras
Alice M Colyer 4 St Pancras
Sidney G Colyer 2 St Pancras
Edgar A Colyer 0 St Pancras
Arthur E Bartlett 17 Lodger Porter St Pancras

Married 15 years 9 children born to the marriage 1 has died

[kitties]

Thank you for the information you have sent to me any more would be very helpful.
Many thanks again

[kitties]

TE=christanel;600217]Marriages June 1/4 1930

FreeBMD has her marriage with the surnames Cooper and Colyer
Colyer Alice M
Cooper Alice M
Herbert S Colyer
Hampstead 1a/1651

They appear to have had 6 children including a set of twins. We can't post their names here because they are possibly still living and our AUP does not allow us to post details of living people.
If you go to FreeBMD, enter Gander in the first surname space then Colyer in the mother's maiden name box, 1930 and 1960 in the date boxes you will get the results giving the births.
There is a public tree on ancestry which shows her in 1911 census and her marriage to Gander but no children or date of death for her. They give his date of death as 1975 in Southend, Essex
1911
5 Sidney Street, Somers Town, St Pancras
Arthur Colyer 33 Motor car worker born Swanley Junction
Minnie L Colyer 32 St Pancras
William C Colyer 14 St Pancras vanguard
Florance R Colyer 12 St Pancras
Edith Colyer 8 St Pancras
Arthur W Colyer 7 St Pancras
Robert E Colyer 5 St Pancras
Alice M Colyer 4 St Pancras
Sidney G Colyer 2 St Pancras
Edgar A Colyer 0 St Pancras
Arthur E Bartlett 17 Lodger Porter St Pancras

Married 15 years 9 children born to the marriage 1 has died[/QUOTE]