Short Service

[Seeker4]

I have recently found a Short Service record for my grandfather Frederick Turner dated September 1915 with the Royal Engineers. I have searched for him on the war records, but I am not sure where to find details of a short service record. Can anyone help. Thank you.

[gortonboy]

hi,,,do you mean you've found a link to the short service record,,but haven't actually seen it ? what are the details....when and where was he born ?

[christanel]

Welcome to British-Genealogy Seeker4

The 40% of WW1 service records that survived the bombing/fire of WW11 are available on ancestry and Findmypast, both pay per view sites. However there should be a Medal Roll Index card for him. Both The National Archives and ancestry have these. On TNA you can pay online and download the information. ancestry has a free version available in many libraries, yours may have it.
I have taken a look and I can see at least 6 Medal Roll cards for a Frederick Turner in the Royal Engineers and many more with a middle name. You don't happen to have a regiment number for your man?
There are also quite a number of service records but to see if any of them are lucky enough to be your blokes we need some details such as where and when born, parent's/wife's name. Anything you know about him that will pick him out from the crowd.
Christina

[Seeker4]

Thank you for your quick reply Christina. My grandfather's full name is Frederick James Turner and he was born in 1875, I believe in London. His wife's name was Mary Ann and I know she died shortly after he was called up, so I did wonder if he was released or given compassionate leave to take care of his children. I don't know his parents names as I have been unable to find a birth certificate or locate him on any census prior to his marriage. As there are many Frederick Turners I don't know for absolute certainty yet if this one is mine, but the service number I have is 176151. I will have a look on TNA as you suggested. He has become my brick wall in my family research and a breakthrough would be good, so thank you again.
Seeker4

[Seeker4]

Hello gortonboy. Thank you for your reply. I found a copy of the short service record on Find my Past. His full name is Frederick James Turner and he was born in London in 1875. As Frederick James is a common name, even in the FWR, this may not be my man, but his age and address seem right. His battalion was the 32nd Base Park Company and his service number is 176151. He was called up in 1914. He joined the Royal Engineers.
Seeker4

[Pam Downes]

The Frederick James Turner with the service number 176151 says his wife is Beatrice nee Lewis and they married 14 April 1900 in St Paul's church, St Pancras. Marriage is on Ancestry's London marriages with Frederick's surname transcribed as Twiner. His father listed as James Turner, wharf foreman.

1901 census RG13/149 folio 65 page 38

1911 census RG14/842 SN66
Living 78 Hungerford Road Islington - the same address as given in his service record. His occupation (wharf foreman) also matches. They had had no children at this time.

If you have proved through birth/marriage certificates that your Frederick's wife was Mary Ann, then the Frederick (service number 176151) is not yours.

Pam

[Seeker4]

Thank you Pam for going to so much trouble. This Frederick Turner is not mine and I shall just have to keep on looking. Mine had 7 children at the time of call up!

Seeker4

[christanel]

Thank you for your quick reply Christina. My grandfather's full name is Frederick James Turner and he was born in 1875, I believe in London. His wife's name was Mary Ann and I know she died shortly after he was called up, so I did wonder if he was released or given compassionate leave to take care of his children. I don't know his parents names as I have been unable to find a birth certificate or locate him on any census prior to his marriage. He has become my brick wall in my family research and a breakthrough would be good, so thank you again.
Seeker4

Hi
How about we try to dismantle this brick wall. Do you have his marriage certificate? When did he marry and what is Mary Ann's maiden name?
Can you give us the reference numbers for the censuses you have them on after their marriage? Piece, folio and page numbers.
If you do have the marriage certificate does it give a father's name and occupation for Frederick's father?

Christina

[Seeker4]

Hello Christina. I have found out that the Frederick Turner I was looking at is not mine, and the Short Service document does not relate to him. I do have a marriage certificate dated April 1898 when he married Mary Ann Eleanor Klunker. It shows his father as Stanley Points Turner, solicitor, deceased. The only problem with this is that his sister married two years later and put the father's name as Frederick Turner, lawyer, deceased! So I have no idea which is correct. The first census I have on him is 1901 - piece 195/folio 9/page 10.
Seeker4

[Pam Downes]

Sometimes getting information from people is like getting blood from a stone. Only harder.

Come one, Seeker4, humour us. What was Frederick's sister name? Who did she marry? And where? How old was she when she married? When you're working with nothing apart from a fairly common name every little detail helps.

I presume you've confirmed that you have the correct marriage for Frederick because you also have the birth certificate of one of children which says that the maiden name of the mother was Klunker?

I've found a possible Frederick in 1891, but as his mother is a charwoman it doesn't exactly fit with his father being a lawyer/solicitor. Incidentally, what was Mary Ann's father's name and occupation because it's not unusual for one party to 'upgrade' their father's occupation to be more on a level with their spouse's father. (e.g. an ordinary ag lab suddenly turns into a farmer.)

Pam