Edward Butler and Sarah Eleanor Spencer

[Jeff Butler]

Edward and Sarah married dec; quarter 1868 in Portsea( from freebdm)
Edward Butler joined the 35th Regiment Royal Sussex some time around that 1868 time, the earliest roll for the 35th is 1898.
He went and served in Cork Ireland had there first child there Charles William Butler 1874 returned to Chichester, Sussex to have Albert Butler in 1877. By time the 1881 census he out of the army living on a pension in Portsmouth where he had Lilian and Maud in 1882, Ethel in 1885, Ernest Richard in 1888, James in 1890 and Violet in 1897.
I am still looking for Sarah Eleanor Spencer birth around 1851 in Portsea to see who her father was plus not been able to find Edward and Sarah on the 1871 census . Had been informed that the Regiment was in Newcastle in 1871 but no luck yet finding them.
Regards
Jeff

[Pam Downes]

Hello Jeff,

Welcome to British-Genealogy.

Although you've found the marriage registration of Edward and Sarah it sounds as if you haven't actually got a copy of the marriage certificate. This should tell you the names and occupations of the fathers of Edward and Sarah.
I appreciate that it's very easy to say to someone 'spend money' but it's not so easy for that someone to be able to afford that money. Sometimes however it's the only (or at least the quickest and cheapest) way to get a result. In the case of direct ancestors it's also essential to obtain as many birth and marriages certificates for them as possible to ensure that you are following the correct people.

There's a birth registration for a Sarah Eleanor Spencer in March quarter 1851, Portsea Island registration district.

The 1851 census was taken on the night of 30/31 March.

In the 1851 census there's a John and Sarah Spencer living in East Street Portsea with a William and john West, both stepsons to John Spencer, plus Louisa Spencer aged 1 and Sarah Spencer aged 2 months. HO107/1659 folio 296 page 40.

In 1861 the same family (plus several more little Spencers!) are living East Street, Portsea with Sarah now called Ellen. A name she retains in the 1881 and 1891 census. RG9/642 folio 95 page 4

The census entries, though looking likely, are not proof that they refer to 'your' Sarah.

Pam

[Jeff Butler]

Hi Pam
Thank you for the quick reply
I may have to bite the bullet and send for the cert; but as Edward has three other brothers it get too much, always wonder why the UK government has not followed the Irish government where you can get photocopies of the cert; for 4 euro that makes more affordable, I suppose the answer is more money to them . To me the odd thing is if you look at freebdm for Sarah Eleanor Spencer marriage there are two Sarah Eleanor married in Portsea in the same quarter dec;in 1868 is that odd
Thanks again
Jeff

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam
Thank you for the quick reply
I may have to bite the bullet and send for the cert; but as Edward has three other brothers it get too much, always wonder why the UK government has not followed the Irish government where you can get photocopies of the cert; for 4 euro that makes more affordable, I suppose the answer is more money to them . To me the odd thing is if you look at freebdm for Sarah Eleanor Spencer marriage there are two Sarah Eleanor married in Portsea in the same quarter dec;in 1868 is that odd
Thanks again
Jeff

Not in the least odd to have two people with the exact same name marrying given (a) the 'naming pattern' system that used to be in practice and (b) people did tend to stick with traditional names. Co-incidence to have them marrying in the same quarter (though not the first time I've seen it), but it emphasises even more the importance of getting the marriage certificate for Sarah and Edward to ensure that you have the correct father/family for her.

You could try finding the other Sarah Eleanor and Emily Groom on the census with their husbands - the other Sarah Eleanor might be 55 in 1871 so you know she can't be the child born c1851. You do need to find both brides and grooms in at least 1871 (plus 1881 if possible) to make sure you do have the correct couples and to make sure that you you haven't found an incorrect one in the 1871 census.

Pam

[geneius]

Army Record on line, can be viewed at FMP as paygo

1) Date of birth/range is 1841 - 1859

2 ) Also listed WO12 / 5000 served Meerut East Indies

3) British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Also served in 107th

Dishcharge 8th October 1878

service no 892

[Pam Downes]

I am such a dumb chicken.

I'd already looked at the 1871 census for Sarah Eleanor's parents as well. (Omit the 'with', and then it reads correctly!)

September quarter 1848, marriage registration with John Spencer and Sarah Eleanor West on the same page, Portsea Island registration district.

1851 census, John and Sarah Spencer living with two West children listed as sons-in-law to the head of the household.
See post #2 for census refs for 1851 and 1861.

September quarter 1866 death registration for a John Spencer, aged 46, in Portsea registration district.

1871 census RG10/1142 folio 44 page 33 Portsea
Sarah Parson, head, 49
Robert Spencer, son, 19
James, Spencer, son, 16
Thomas Spencer, son, 15
Charles Spencer, son, 13

So not only did Sarah Eleanor junior marry in December quarter 1868, but her widowed mother married George Parsons in the same quarter.

Pam

[geneius]

I am such a dumb chicken.

Happens to us ALL!

[Jeff Butler]

Dishcharge 8th October 1878

service no 892[/QUOTE]

Thank you geneius and Pam
Will send away for the marriage cert; tonight, had a look on FMP can only find the birth of there first son in Cork
geneius I am looking at FMP site but no matter what I enter nothing comes up for ----- Edward Butler, Private Edward Butler with service number 892 or even 35th Regiment, Royal Sussex . The Royal Sussex tells me there is one too. Can you break it down into easy steps to find it
All the best Jeff

[Jeff Butler]

Hi
Found the record FMP asking if I can pay be record.
Jeff