Massive coincidence, or brickwall demolished?

[Scpeel]

I've been obsessed with my great grandfather for a long time. He's been impossible to track down, although in previous posts I did get a few good starters from members here.

His name was William Edward Peel, born in Ireland, yet I had never been able to find any records pre 1913.
I did stumble upon a birth record for a William Edward Pee, however, and there are quite a few parallels between their lives. I'm 95% convinced that they are the same person, but I want other people's opinions.. is it one big coincidence or have I indeed found my relative's true identity?

I don't like walls of text so I've organised into a table, arranged by decade, that you can find in the following PDF:

https://1drv.ms/1nBBJti


I'd really appreciate your help and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks.

[Wilkes_ml]

My thoughts are that they are indeed the same person, who probably left his family behind and the "deceased" entered on his daughter's marriage certificate could a) be an error b) transposed for spouse's father's status? c) "dead" to the family due to misinformation or just because the family had been abandoned.

The fact that he re-appears again after 1919 is not a surprise to me...I have even come across true bigamy as well as remarriage after 7 years abandonment (i.e. assumed deceased and legally able to remarry)

The fact that his age given at death is way out also doesn't surprise me...I've had ancestors whose age was 10 years out!

I think the fact that both were butlers, and both were sons of retired caterers pretty much sums it up for me. The change from PEE to PEEL isn't much of a stretch, I've had DENNIS to DENNISON, SABLE to SAVILL(E), OWERS/HOURS/OURS/EWERS etc. etc.

From the evidence you have put together, I would be 99% certain they were the same.

[pwholt]

It must be significant that you don't have the two of them appearing in the records at the same time - eg both on the same census. pwholt

[geneius]

Well where do I start?

William Edward PEE confirmation of his birth

Birth date 3 January 1868 Down Ireland s/o John PEE & wife Hannah nee ATHENNY

Baptised 28 December 1869 HURLEY,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND

1871 RG10 1293 57 1; with parents

1881 RG11 1354 18 29 with relatives

1891 as William G ALLEN

1891 RG12 1207 60 1 Elizabeth ALLEN wife

1901 : RG13 2917 87 37
wife Elizabeth ALLEN & 5 Children

1907 Marriage Cert for Ellen Elizabeth PEE states father William PEE Labourer

1911 William E PEE with his parents he states he is a valet - domestic he is married for 21 years 4 children of the marriage 0 living 4 died

1916 John PEE of Russell Place Cross Houses nr Shrewsbury Retired Steward died 18 May 1916 Probate at Shrewsbury grated to Mary Ann PEE widow Eleanor Eliza PEE spinster est £2984/18/1d

Maybe getting the father John's will may shed some light on William and again his mother's & sisters both recorded in 1933, he is not shown as an executor so maybe mentioned in the will

You could check trade directories for an entry as a publican! Newspapers to see if he has 'offended'?

Conjecture is probably a better word to usem but all points to William EDWARD PEE aka ALLEN aka PEEL

[Scpeel]

My thoughts are that they are indeed the same person, who probably left his family behind and the "deceased" entered on his daughter's marriage certificate could a) be an error b) transposed for spouse's father's status? c) "dead" to the family due to misinformation or just because the family had been abandoned.

The fact that he re-appears again after 1919 is not a surprise to me...I have even come across true bigamy as well as remarriage after 7 years abandonment (i.e. assumed deceased and legally able to remarry)

The fact that his age given at death is way out also doesn't surprise me...I've had ancestors whose age was 10 years out!

I think the fact that both were butlers, and both were sons of retired caterers pretty much sums it up for me. The change from PEE to PEEL isn't much of a stretch, I've had DENNIS to DENNISON, SABLE to SAVILL(E), OWERS/HOURS/OURS/EWERS etc. etc.

From the evidence you have put together, I would be 99% certain they were the same.

Thanks so much for getting back to me. I try to be sceptical about these things, so I have tried very hard to be careful with all the records and not jumping to conclusions. There are other records for William Peels crossing the atlantic, but any that exclude his London address I have held back from my comparison.

Is it true then that remarriage after 7 years was legal? That's very interesting.

My ancestor seems to have been prone to lying. His age varies wildly in the records - even in those confirmed to have been him. So records are pretty much all I have to go on! Writing his father has retired, while simultaneously being deceased, is a pretty weird description of things, which is a bit of a fingerprint in itself.

I feel really good about this mystery - it's taken me so long to settle this, about 5 years I'd say!

[Scpeel]

Well where do I start?

William Edward PEE confirmation of his birth

Birth date 3 January 1868 Down Ireland s/o John PEE & wife Hannah nee ATHENNY

Baptised 28 December 1869 HURLEY,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND

1871 RG10 1293 57 1; with parents

1881 RG11 1354 18 29 with relatives

1891 as William G ALLEN

1891 RG12 1207 60 1 Elizabeth ALLEN wife

1901 : RG13 2917 87 37
wife Elizabeth ALLEN & 5 Children

1907 Marriage Cert for Ellen Elizabeth PEE states father William PEE Labourer

1911 William E PEE with his parents he states he is a valet - domestic he is married for 21 years 4 children of the marriage 0 living 4 died

1916 John PEE of Russell Place Cross Houses nr Shrewsbury Retired Steward died 18 May 1916 Probate at Shrewsbury grated to Mary Ann PEE widow Eleanor Eliza PEE spinster est £2984/18/1d

Maybe getting the father John's will may shed some light on William and again his mother's & sisters both recorded in 1933, he is not shown as an executor so maybe mentioned in the will

You could check trade directories for an entry as a publican! Newspapers to see if he has 'offended'?

Conjecture is probably a better word to usem but all points to William EDWARD PEE aka ALLEN aka PEEL

How did you find all that so quickly?!!

Where did you find that birth record? I used familysearch [1] and ancestry, and they both agreed on the mother being "Hariett Athenny". Athenny seems to be a spectacularly rare name (only 3 results, two of which are the above birth record), so I'm more inclined to believe that Athenny is a transcription error. Or perhaps it refers to Athenry, in Ireland?!

How would I find an original will? I didn't know that you could get more than the probate notes.

Thanks so much for getting back to me. For more experienced folk to buy my theory makes me feel much more sane!

Also, I have now contacted one of the descendants of the other family, and it made a lot of sense to them. :-)

[Megan Roberts]

How would I find an original will? I didn't know that you could get more than the probate notes.. :-)

Try:
https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inh...robate-records

[geneius]

mother being "Hariett Athenny". Athenny

OOOoops! My error should be Harriett

How would I find an original will?

Info you need to apply:

NAME: John Pee
DEATH: 18 May 1916 - Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
OTHER: 22 Jul 1916 - Shrewsbury

Eleanor Eliza Pee
DEATH: 29 Jun 1924 - Shropshire, England
OTHER: 9 Aug 1933 - Birmingham, England


Mary Ann Pee
Probate Date: 13 Mar 1933
Death Date: 31 Jan 1933
Death Place: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Registry: Shrewsbury

[geneius]

"Hariett Athenny"

Could this be the marriage

13 May 1867

St George Hanover Sq

PEE John bach full age Servant Belgrave Sq father John PEE Green grocer

HUTCHINS Harriett sp full age Belgrave Sq father Richard HUTCHINS butcher

both signed

witnesses James RIDGERS* / Fanny HUTCHINS

* 1861 desc as Butler / 1871 Parish clerk

[geneius]

Harriett PEE died 1880 Brentford John as a widower is on the 1881 census & must be the reason why William & siblings are with a relative

According to 1911 return, John PEE & Mary Ann married 1884