Private William Baines

[Julieu]

Hi,
Can anyone help me at all? I have a letter which was sent to my nan (we think). The letter was from private William Baines, 6th Manchester regiment, A company. The address he has put on the letter is Hessle, near Hull, Yorks. From my own investigations I think the letter would have been written in December 1941.

If anyone has any other information at all on William Barnes I would be very grateful.

Many thanks in advance.

[simmo1]

Hi

Baines or Barnes?
Searching CWGC - https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1 gave no result, so he survived the war.
All service records for WW2 are at MOD, read sticky at top of each forum area.
It would only be if someone knew him or his family personally.

regards

Robert

[Julieu]

Hi Robert,
It's definitely Baines and the number is also correct as his name is also written in an address book. In his letter he mentions burford. Thank you for your reply. I did do a search on cwgc site too. So at least he survived the war.

Many thanks Julie

[Pam Downes]

Hello Julieu,

Welcome to British-Genealogy.

I have a feeling that at the moment you're unfortunately flogging a dead horse and/or searching for a needle in a haystack.
Firstly, the way I read your message you're not sure if the addressee of the letter is your nan. Is this because you're not sure of your nan's name or because there are two people in the family with that name? You also don't say whether it's just the letter or if it's in an envelope.

Assuming that William was living in the place he was born there are two William Baines born in Sculcoates registration district who could 'fit'. One though can be ruled out immediately - William, birth registered March quarter 1903, death registration same quarter.

The mother of William, birth registration December quarter 1913, was Emily Whitelam. She married John Arthur H(olt) Baines in Sculcoates registration district in December quarter 1901. In the 1911 census they're living in Waterloo Street, Hull (civil parish of Sculcoates) with four children - Grace Eleanor, Alfred Holt, John Arthur Holt, and Percy Holt (Holt being middle names). Census ref RG14/28726 SN87.

There is also another William Baines in the 1911 census. Aged 10, and said to have been born in Hull, he's living in Providence Row, Hull with his parents Henry and Maud and three siblings. Census ref RG14/28721 SN7.
Though William seems to have been a year old in the 1901 census. RG13/4498 folio 91 page 26, surname spelt Baynes.
Can't find an obvious birth registration for William under either Baines or Baynes.
Henry Baines married Maud Elizabeth McNally June quarter 1895 Hull registration district.

I don't know whether that information helps or just muddies the water even further. (Probably the latter!)

Pam

[Julieu]

Hi Pam,
Thank you for your reply. As far as we know the letter was sent to my nan. We only have the letter and do not have the envelope unfortunately. He refers to being in Burford prior to being in Hull. I do have his soldier number if you think that might help? I do not know if he would have been born in Hull, I think he was just based there at the time of writing. I have tried to find him via the soldier number but nothing comes up. Do you have any other advise?

Regards Julie

[Pam Downes]

Hi Julie,

You really need the service record for William but that's still held by the MoD.
You're supposed to send a death certificate with your application but of course you don't know when William died. The reason they want a death certificate is because within twenty-five years of death they will release only certain details unless you have the approval of the next of kin. But those details crucially include the place and date of birth which should solve the problem. (It would be a cruel twist of ate to find two Williams born in the same place on the same day.)
https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-pers...ervice-records

This is also quite informative if you 'click here' on the Army Personnel Records and Family Interest Enquiries - Historical Disclosures section.
https://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to write and explain your position and say that you only need the basic records such as date and place of birth so would it be possible for you to apply. You do have the service number which is the other main piece of information they need when you apply for a record. If they say you can apply there will be a long wait because the world and his wife are currently applying.

I've just checked for William Baines born in England and Wales between 1910 and 1920 - there's about 90.

Can you glean any further clues from what's in the letter and the tone of writing? e.g. is it addressed 'Dear Miss/Mrs' or 'Dear/Dearest Freda'? Any mention of family?

Just had one possible 'light bulb' moment. Does it have a street address with a house number on it? If so, you could try the electoral rolls though they're not the easiest of things to look through.
bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/offpubs/electreg/electoralregisters.pdf (copy-and-paste)

There were no electoral rolls 1940-1944 but if you could check the 1939 and 1945 ones although you're unlikely to find William listed you might get a clue from the names of the people who live there.

After that, I'm sorry but I don't have any other ideas.

Pam

[Julieu]

Hi Pam,

Thank you again for this info, I think you are right I an looking for a needle in a haystack. I have found out that his birthday was on 21st December, still don't know what year though. That was found in my nana birthday book. I think that they may have had a relationship from the tone in his letter. What I can't get my head around is that I was able to find my grandads service information etc online and I did not have his number or anything, I just searched his name. Why is private William baines so hard to find?
Many thanks again.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Julie,

I'm now getting slightly confused. (Doesn't take much!)

What I can't get my head around is that I was able to find my grandads service information etc online and I did not have his number or anything, I just searched his name.

Was this grandad married to the nan who William Baines wrote to? And if so, was there quite a difference in their ages? (Seventeen years between my maternal grandparents. ) Because for you to have found service information online about your grandad he must have been in WW1. As Robert said in post #2, service records for WW2 (actually anyone who was in the services 1921 onwards) are still held by the MoD. And because you've been talking about 1941, we (well, I!) have just assumed that William was probably born about 1910-1920. If your nan was, say, 40 in 1941 then we need to look for an older William. Not that that will make things any easier! Though his birthdate will eliminate quite a few.

Pam

[Julieu]

Hi Pam, Sorry I may have confused you. I will explain further: Willaim Baines wrote a letter to my nan. I think this was around 1941. My nan at that time was not married. She was born in 1924. My grandad was born in 1918, they were married in 1946. My grandad was in WW2 as he was in franc and then a POW. I got this information from the internet. I am so sorry for the confusion. I am only trying to find more about William Baines because I think he was in a relationship with my nan and there are some points/dates/places I need to find out. I would rather not put that on here though.
Many thanks again, Julie

[Pam Downes]

Hi Julie,

No apologies needed. Because everyone is currently talking service records, I just automatically assumed that's what you were talking about. I wasn't thinking about you finding a small piece of your grandad's WW2 history online.

Request for privacy understood, so I don't need you to say on here any further details with regard to my next 'brilliant idea' which I have to say will probably be my last one too.

There's a 50/50 chance that William may have lived locally to your nan. So in 1941 was she living in the same town/nearby village where she was born? Her birth registration is almost certain to be found on FreeBMD. (If she was born late November or in December then her birth registration may be in March quarter 1925.) If you click on the blue district name that will give you a link to the places in that district.
Now search on FreeBMD for a William Baines born between say 1910 and 1924 in the same district (select district from the drop-down box on the right-hand side. Do not select county as well because you search on either county or district.)
You're looking for Williams with a birth registration in either December or March quarters.

Then it's a case of applying to the GRO for the birth certificates of those Williams, one at a time, specifying that the birthdate is 21st December. If no match is found then you get a refund of your money. I would probably start with the ones nearer your nan's birth and work my way backwards, leaving any born in 1910 to the end. Don't assume that the first one you match will be the one your nan knew - I think you would have to see if any others match the 21 Dec birth.

Long-winded and a little costly at £9.25 a certificate but you would probably consider it worth it.

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ (You can order by phone, see 'contact us' on right-hand side.)

Once you have possible birth years then you can look on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site in case William was killed in the war, and on the GRO Index for William dying with an age a year either side of his birth year and/or (depending which years you're looking at) his actual birth date.

If everything is still as plain as mud, or you want help a little further on, then yell again. Either come back to the thread or PM (private message) me.

If your nan had moved away from her birthplace in 1941, then search for Williams born in that place/district. Select index of place names.
ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/index.htm (copy-and-paste.)

Your only other option is to apply (in turn) for the birth certificates of all the William Baines whose birth was registered in December and March quarters, saying that the birthdate must be 21st December.

Pam