levi and hirsh london

[phillip]

Louise
Did you find Elias aka Louis in the 1871 Census? I can't find him on Ancestry or Find My Past. Was Ann dead pre 1871 Census?
The 1877 Elias death may well be him because there is only one other for an Elias Levi in 1878 and he matches the Elias pawnbroker with a son called Edward. This Elias in his probate was born about 1812 so not the Elias aka Louis.
You may have to pay for the GRO Death Certificate for Elias death in 1877 just to confirm.
Phillip

[jenlouise]

1871 census for elias/lewis i also cant find ...i also see his daughter elizabeth b 1828 i did not have this person so she is new to me 8-)

[jenlouise]

phillip

i have came across this i dont know what this means or if it is connected in any way but one never knows 8-)

London, England, Selected Poor Law Removal and Settlement Records, 1828-1930 about Ann Levi
Name: Ann Levi
Record Type: Orders of Removal
Event Date: 24 Apr 1880
Poor Law Union or Parish: Shoreditch
Residence: Shoreditch
Reference Number: SHBG/129/001

also this

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Ann Levi
Name: Ann Levi
Estimated birth year: abt 1804
Registration Year: 1867
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 63
Registration district: Chelsea
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 136

[phillip]

Louise
The document refers to Settlement Orders by a particular parish to prevent paupers moving from one parish to another and becoming chargeable against the parish poor law rates. In short, paupers were returned to a parish where they originated from.I do not know if it has any relevance to your lines without further research.
Looking at your Elias Levi aka Louis Elias Levi lines am I correct in saying that all the children of Elias aka Louis married non Jews. I am aware of Sarah who married Patrick Joseph Perry and have read the Rootsweb posts- an interesting line!

You mentioned in an earlier post on another site that you held a copy of the marriage certificate of Elias aka Louis. Could you post full details from the certificate which might hold further clues such as witness names.

If you look at the various postings I have made on my Jacobs lines you will note that many of them were in the glass trade including manufacturing in London hence my interest in your Levi. In addition, through my Moses/Hart distant relatives they have a connection through the Gluckstein to J Lyons and the coffee/tea shops. I also have Lyons/Levey further connections to one of my Hart lines with another researcher suggesting that these Lyons also connect to J Lyons- I have seen no proof of this as yet.
Phillip

[jenlouise]

hi phillip ..yes sara levi was very interesting married 3x and bigamy was involved the levis had a lot of actors/singers etc thats why i found sara hard to find as they travelled a lot
as for the marriage of elias/louis levi to ann mendes all i have is the synagogue records for which you have seen ..someone else is researching this line as well and they enquired about elias/louis levis parents at synagogue scribes and she sent me the reply about
hannah harris and jacob levi i dont know if this is of any help but this is the reply

Thank you for contacting us at www.synagoguescribes.co.uk


There is no RECORD for the marriage of Hannah Harris and Jacob Levi - only the entry in the Synagogue Marriage Register as transcribed on our website.

GSM 067/6 Marriage 1802 [20 May]

LEVI Jacob [Jacob b. Yehuda Englander]
HARRIS Hannah [Henla bat Hirsh]

And there is no way that you can find, for certain, Yehuda Englander's English name or place of birth.

However, we can make some educated guesses/deductions.

The fact that the word Englander appears in his patronymic suggests he was born in the UK. In early Synagogue records English names were rarely, if ever, used so some addition would be made to an individual's Hebrew name to distinguish him from others with the same name.= for example Judah Hamburger, Judag Mannheim, Judah Hollander. He might well have been called Judah Levi (Levy) as in those relatively early times there was not the practice to go for something more Anglicised - Lewis/Lyon etc

I have found a couple of records where a Judah/Yehuda Englander has the distinctive addition of the name Shiloh (variant spellings) This name is relatively unusual. A Keywrod search for either Chilo or Shilo brings up 2 results for Chilo and 11 for Shiloh - some of which clearly relate to families with Family Name Myers and Cohen
These may be relavent to your family

No 1 is a possible wife of Judah Englander

BSHAMBUR 337 Burial 1809 [26 Nov] Wife of Judah Shilo Englander Cox Square Petticoat Lane



No.2 is a possible child of Jacob Levi

BSGSBUR 267/1983 Burial 1813 [8 Jul] Child of Yakob b. Judah Shila (Shilo) Spitalfields Parish

No 3 is a probable brother of Jacob Levi

https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/per...s/?value=24738

GSBUR32 104 Burial 1832 [1 Nov] LEVY Reuben [Yerechem b Yehuda Shilo] Coxs Square



The evidence from the 1841 Census for Bell Lane - adjacent to Cox's Square where Jacob and Hannah Levy have a grandson called Judah and the 1851 census where Henry & Catherine have another child called Jacob

all points to a connection with the earlier Synagogue Records, but it is up to you to decide whether or not they are indeed connected and, if so, relate to your ancestors.



If you have access to Ancestry or live in or near London, a search in the Land Tax records held at the LMA for Cox's square might produce tangible evidence that Yehuda/Judah Englander went by the name of Judah Levi/Levy

[phillip]

Louise
The message regarding Judah Levi/Levy/Englander is an important one because Gaby Laws and Angela Shires who have set up the Cemetery Scribes and Synagogue Scribes sites are excellent and thorough researchers. I would take careful note regarding the information they have sent.
Phillip

[phillip]

Louise
If you follow up the advice from Synagogue Scribes regarding the London Tax Records for Judah Levi/Levy this is what I have found-
Judah Levi and Abraham Levi appear in the Langbourn 1770 records Portsoken Houndsditch; Reuben Levi Portsoken St Mary Whitechapel 1761-1762 and Reuben Levy 1776-1779 Portsoken and 1776 Petticoat Lane. Lyon Levy, Samuel Levy, Michael Levy, Joseph Levy; Jacob Levy all appear in Petticoat Lane records living very close to each other.
If you then cross check with Synagogue Scribes Will Extracts you can see possible connections with some of the Levy previously named but you would need to dig deeper to confirm a) Relevance to your Levi/Levy b) that the names in the will extracts relate to the Land Tax named individuals:
NA 283 1783 Jacob Elias Levy- see various named individuals; NA 279 Jacob Levy 1816 with children Michael and Lyon

I do not know if any of the above data is relevant to your lines but it does suggest that these individuals named in the London Tax records are related.
Phillip

[phillip]

Louise
See - The Levy Data set compiled by Chris Newall, 2011. He has produced a data base with very useful data on various Levy including-Death 27 March Henry Levy- Cox's Square Bell Lane 27 March 1838; Death Mary Levy -Cox's Square Bell Lane 21 Jan 1839; still born child of Samuel Levy 3 Cox's Square Spitalfields 10 May 1846; Death Elizabeth Levy Cox's Square 10 July, 1847; Death Lewis Levy 3 Cox's Square 14 Jan 1848; Death Fanny Levy 7 Cox's Square 22 August 1849; Death Rebecca Levy 3 Cox's Square 16 Dec 1849.
It would make sense to cross reference this data with Synagogue Scribes and Cemetery Scribes data given the Levy connections.
See also Old Bailey Trials online which has records on various Levi/Levy including Abraham Lyon Levi of Bell Lane a victim in the trial of 6 July 1774- the trial record also refers to Mordecai Levi and Hart Levi.
I do not know if any of the above individuals relate to your lines but the reference to Bell Lane and Cox's Square is an important possible indicator. See - JewishGen UK Data base on London traders which also has reference to individuals named Judah Levy-merchant Haydon Yard Minories 1769-1775 ( he is an individual which I and my Levy distant relatives have considered ourselves as being a possible relative); Judah Levy merchant 24 Piccadilly 1783-1787 and jointly with Morton Levy in 1787 insurance policy and then 4 St George's Rd in 1793.
Phillip