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Thread: Lifton family

  1. #11
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    Thanks for your support, yes i believe the Richard to be ours born in 1788 in Hubberston.
    However his death record states he died aged 71 which makes him born 1787?

    Frances is named Fanny on a few of their childrens baptism records.
    There was also a Samuel Lifton in Bristol having children at the same time. He was in the military and then was a bootmaker. Not sure if he is related to the family.

    There is a tree on Ancestry done by a B Lifton he states Richards father was born 1723. He descended off my grandads brother. Sadly this chap passed away so i was unable to confirm the dates!

    There was another chap who did the family history and stated we descended off the Liston tree. There was no mention of Pembrokeshire and they stated there was a Ginger Lifton. I never found any of this. There is so many Lifton families living in Pembrokeshire and it gets confusing.
    Richard Liftons signature of the named looked like a long S, but i presume that was his hand writing back then.

    I am wingtsun20 on Ancestry, i added photos i taken from the various transcripts i located!

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    Sorry to keep you waiting for an answer: I'm the early to bed, early to rise type.

    First point: the age stated at death can never be relied upon to be accurate, as it's simply what some family member or friend thought was right. A discrepancy of one year is very minor, and can safely be ignored.

    Second point: Samuel Lifton may well have been unrelated: from what I've seen, there were other Lifton families in the south-western counties, which were very likely not connected with yours at all.

    Third point: it is a pity you could not get the facts from the other person at Ancestry - BUT if you'll take my advice, you will not put any faith in any published tree UNLESS it is (a) properly sourced and (b) you have checked and verified the sources for yourself. There are good trees on Ancestry - including my own, I hope - but some were created by people who had no experience of historical sources, and others (only a few, I hope) were made by people who cared for the size of their tree more than for its accuracy. We all make mistakes at times - but recently I found a tree which quoted sources for two marriages which actually proved the tree was wrong

    Fourth point: forget the Listons until you see a genuine source which proves a connection.

    I'm going on too long, so I'll hasten to a crucial point - are you certain that the Isaac Lifton (1818-85) of your original post is your ancestor? If so, I have seen a record of his marriage which shows his father was Richard. But the question then is, was he the Richard from Pembrokeshire? It seems to me that there may have been another Richard, born in or near Bristol, who features in the 1841 census. This is an area which needs more investigation, before we worry about Williams in Hubberston.

    There's a lot more I could post, but not at present, as I have other things to do.

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    Here's my last offering for today:-
    Let’s look at the problems with Richard Lifton in the censuses:-

    In 1841 in Cannon Street, St James, Bristol we have this household:
    Richard Lifton aged 50 - no sign of his wife
    Richard Lifton aged 20
    Fredrick Lifton aged 20
    James Lifton aged 17
    Louisa Lifton aged 14
    Alfred Lifton aged 10

    All these are marked with a Y in the “Born in this county?” column. According to Anc the county was Gloucestershire, according to FMP it was Somerset. Of course Bristol was near the border of the counties as they then were, but it adds to the fun!

    Isaac was not there, but he was at Hiram Place in Bristol.

    Now here, in the 1851 census at Westbury on Trym, we have:

    Richard Lifton aged 63, boot maker, born in Milford - in Hampshire, Panama or Pembrokeshire, depending whose reading is accepted
    Francis Lifton, wife, aged 61 cook, born Ashton, Somerset
    Richard Lifton, son, aged 31, porter, born in Bristol Castle Precincts.

    Are these two households the same family, ten years apart, or not?
    If they are, there was an error over Richard senior’s birthplace in 1841 - by no means impossible.
    A Frances Lifton was recorded in Hubberston in the 1841 census, in a household which seems not to contain anyone identifiable as her relation, but further searching may prove otherwise; she’s said to be 40, which doesn’t fit with the 1851 census, if she’s the wife missing from the 1841 Bristol household. But why would she be in Hubberston, if her husband was not from that area?

    Some hard facts:
    A Richard Lifton died in 1858 3rd qtr in Clifton reg. district.
    Another Richard Lifton died in 1869 3rd qtr in Clifton, said to be 41 - presumably the son of the elder Richard, found in the 1841 and 1851 censuses.
    Frances Lifton died in 1855 4th qtr in Clifton.

    We need more evidence; for example, baptisms for the children who were with Richard senior in 1841 - baptisms which give both parents’ names. So far, I haven’t had time to even look for them.

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    Yes Isaac Lifton b. 1818 d. 1884 (bootmaker) was married to Jane Stenner they had 11 children. He was father to Gilbert Henry Lifton (military) b. 1862, who then had Charles Gilbert Lifton (army/carpenter) b. 1889 who then had my grandad!

    I always wondered if there was another Richard at that time, i know that Richard and Frances had a Son called Richard baptism 1819 in Bristol.
    The Liston name came up from someone who was Gilberts son, he was a teacher and researched the family tree.

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    I got the baptisms from Bristol Record Archives I took pictures. I can email you. They should be on Ancestry on my Lift2 tree.
    Last edited by wingtsun25; 26-02-2014 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Update

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    The William b. 1758 i actually found the record on findmypast and it was incorrect. It was down as Wm Lefton so no one actually saw this document until i got it corrected. Thats why everyone has the William b. 1761!

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    Sorry if I seem to be over-cautious, but as a retired history teacher I have been dealing with sources for many years, and I know a lot of pit-falls. I still recommend ignoring the Listons, at least for the present.

    I accept that all is well, back as far as Isaac son of Richard. I take it that you now think all the references to Richard, contained in my last post, are the same family - though I note that your lift2 tree makes no mention of the 1841 census in Richard’s profile, though the address fits with other information which you did include.

    Those baptisms of Richard’s children - they are not visible to me at Ancestry, because you have made all except Isaac and James private. However, as you have seen the records in Bristol, that’s fine. I did find that Louisa married in 1848. I also found that FMP has a James who might well be Richard’s son, living married in South Wales until at least 1911 - this does not appear on your tree. (I also found that the name Isaac was used among the Pembrokeshire Liftons, for I found at FreeREG the baptism of Elizabeth, daughter of Isaac and Elizabeth Lifton, at Hubberston on 9 May 1816.)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    As for the William who may have been your Richard’s father, here is a list of recorded facts:

    William Lifton, son of William and Elizabeth, was baptised at Hubberston on 31 Nov 1758. (familysearch.org has him as Lefton, with no parents named.)

    William Lifton married Martha Lewis at Hubberston on 7 Dec 1785.

    William Lifton and his wife Mary (née Smith) had a son Richard baptised at Hubberston on 16 Mar 1788, the child said to be 2 weeks old.
    The same couple had a son William baptised at Hubberston on 8 July 1792, at 2 weeks old.
    William and Mary Lifton had a son William buried at Hubberston on 16 Nov 1797, said to be aged 2.

    According to familysearch.org, Esther William, daughter of William Lifton and MARY RICHARDS, was baptised at Hubberston in Oct 1808; and Sarah Richards or William, daughter of William Lifton and MARY RICHARDS, was baptised there on 3 Dec 1812.

    In the 1841 census, William Lifton, said to be 80, was living in Hubberston with MARY RICHARDS, said to be 70; William Berry, said to be 12; and Ester Lifton, said to be 25. Note that all ages are suspect in the 1841 census - they were not expected to be exactly accurate.

    William Lifton, said to be 89, was buried at Hubberston on 6 Feb 1847, and his death was registered in 1847 1st qtr at Haverfordwest.

    These facts could be reconciled, but only through speculation, not on the evidence so far available. And, as you know, there were other William Liftons around in the same period…

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    For the sake of clarity, and in case someone has access to more parish information, here are the other William Liftons:-

    William Lifton, a boatman, said to be 73, was buried at Hubberston in Sep 1796. If one could show that he married an Elizabeth, he might be the father of William born 1858, and therefore probably grandfather to the OP’s forebear Richard.

    William Lifton, son of William and Mary (Smith), baptised at Hubberston at 2 weeks old on 8 July 1792, was probably the one who married Elizabeth Richards on 26 June 1813 at Hubberston and died aged 33 in 1826: he was buried at Hubberston on 10 Nov 1826, but the register says he lived in Milford.
    Meanwhile, familysearch.org has this list of baptisms for their children:-
    Sarah Lifton, dau of William and Elizabeth, baptised at Hubberston on 23 Dec 1813
    Eliza Lifton, dau of William and Elizabeth, baptised at Hubberston on 2 May 1816
    Charlotte Lifton, dau of William and Elizabeth, baptised at Hubberston on 9 Aug 1818
    John Henry Lifton, son of William and Elizabeth, baptised at Hubberston on 24 Dec 1820
    William Lifton, son of William and Elizabeth, baptised at Hubberston on 13 Dec 1824
    I have not followed these up; it’s likely they were cousins to the OP’s forebear Richard.

    William Lifton, son of Benjamin and Catherine, was buried at Hubberston on 2 Dec 1806, said to be 38; the burial register says he died of “convulsion fits”.

    Help, anyone?

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    In regards to Ben and Catherine Thomas I think their child named William must had died aged 3 months.?

    They were married 8th July 1796.

    They had Joseph baptised Jan 4th 1802 aged 5 weeks.
    William Baptised Nov 29th 1806 aged one day.
    A Mary Baptised Nov 13th 1808 aged thre weeks.

    Like you said December 2nd burial of a William son Of Benj and Catherine aged 3 (then a weird character)
    Then burial of a Mary Lifton daughter of above aged 7 months in 1809.

    An Isaac and Elizabeth Lewis had the following children. Married by banns 17th November 1805.

    Henry baptised July 10th 1807 aged 5 weeks.
    Henry baptised Feb 24th 1811 aged 4 weeks.
    Burial of Henry Lifton 1807 dated July 21st aged few days.
    On 9th may 1816 there is a baptism of a Elizabeth Lifton to an Isaac in Hakin, states he was a Shoemaker.

    Then we got the William Lifton and Ann Smith who had children.

    May 8th 1795 aged two weeks, Henry son of William Lifton Labourer and Ann His wife formely Ann Smith.

    October 21st 1798 aged three weeks, Abra daughter of William Lifton Labourer and Ann His wife formely Ann Smith.

    Who was the Ann Lifton that was buried Nov 23rd aged 65 in 1798, stated she was wife of William Lifton labourer.



    I am curious to what happened to the Liftons that were born in the 1750/60s era?

    Ann 1754
    Ellezebeth 1756
    Wm 1758
    Richard 1760
    Henry 1762
    Benjamin 1766 - i presume this is the Ben with Catherine?
    Robert 1768

  10. #20
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    1. For obvious reasons, I have not investigated Benjamin and Catherine. What you say about their William tells me that I have seen only a transcript, and that it was wrong, as it clearly said 38. Similarly, I know nothing of the Liftons born in the 1750s and 1760s, because I haven't looked, and if I did, I would probably find online less than you already know.

    2. I have seen no references at all to a William Lifton married to Ann Smith - I thought it was William and Mary Smith who interested you, as the parents of a Richard who is probably your direct ancestor.

    3. FreeREG has the baptisms of various Liftons at Hubberston, but their collection begins in 1800 - they have no transcriptions of earlier registers. Among those they have are Henry and Elizabeth, children of Isaac and Elizabeth, as you say. Also the children of William and Elizabeth, born between 1813 and 1824, the same as on familysearch. Also the children of William Lifton and Mary Richards, as on familysearch - except that FreeREG makes clear that the registers up to about 1812 give patronymic surnames to the children, thus "William" for the children of William Lifton and Mary Richards.

    4. As you already have much more information than was originally apparent, I doubt that I can help any further, if indeed I have helped at all: perhaps only by a little clarification of some points.
    Last edited by Allan F Sparrow; 27-02-2014 at 7:15 PM. Reason: Correction

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