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  1. #11
    TxRiverElf
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    Thank you, gasser... my forehead is fairly bruised from wall banging too...

    Very early on, when I had only fleeting interest... as opposed to the more ardent interest I have now... heehee... I had encountered the following on someone's page... but was unable to verify it...

    "The following record is found in the Canongate Register of Marriages 1600-1631:
    COLQUHOUN (CALHOUNE, CAHOUN), Mr. Alexander, brother germane to the Laird of Luss, and Marioun, dochter lawfull to Robert STIRLING of Lotter, and dochter ot Jeane GOWTRIE, who was dochter to Mr. Alexander GOUTRIE, commendator clerk of Edinburgh, mar. in our Kirk Chapell of Holyrudhous be Mr. Johne TENNENT, parsone of Calder Saturday, 30 July 1631."

    IF TRUE then the daughter, Jean, would have been 'legit'...

    Of course, one does have to wonder however, why Sir William Fraser, author of 'The chiefs of Colquhoun and their country; (1869)' did not include the details of Alexander... such as marriage and death... perhaps he grew tired of the chore, by the time he got to Alexander, and focused primarily on the Lairds themselves.

    HOWEVER... (apologies for going slightly off topic, but this is rather interesting and begs questioning Fraser's lack of detail regarding Alexander) even on that score... Sir William Fraser deliberately avoided a very 'shocking for the times' event regarding the brother of Alexander... who was in fact one of the Lairds of Luss...

    At the bottom of page 248 and top of 249, Fraser had stated :

    "Although Sir John Colquhoun was nominally in possession of the family estates for upwards of forty years, he was not successful in his management of them. This arose from various misfortunes to which it is unnecessary here particularly to allude other than that they required his residing abroad for a considerable time during the period of ownership of the estates."

    What Fraser was alluding to was the fact that Sir John... married with six children... had run away with his ward... who was his living wife's much much younger sister! He was formerly charged with using witchcraft (punishable by death) to seduce the girl... and since he failed to appear to answer the charges, he was 'put to the horn'.... and that is why he was 'out of country'... the rascal was protecting his neck! LOL

    Perhaps Fraser had intended to do a separate piece of literary work on that 'Laird piece of work'... LOL

    Of course, you may be correct about Marion and Alexander not being married... since Fraser on pages 234 and 235... merely suggested they had married... he did not point us towards any proof or details in that regard:

    "Alexander Colquhoun married Marion Stirling before 18th June 1632, on which date they had a daughter baptized Jean. In the registration of the baptism he is named and designated Alexander Colquhoun, brother-german to Sir John Colquhoun of Luss.1 Alexander Colquhoun appears to have died without surviving issue."

    And his reference (1) is that which you discovered... in the Edinburg Register of Baptisms

    SO... thank you for sharing my frustration... heehee

  2. #12
    gasser
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    ... but was unable to verify it...

    "The following record is found in the Canongate Register of Marriages 1600-1631:
    COLQUHOUN (CALHOUNE, CAHOUN), Mr. Alexander, brother germane to the Laird of Luss, and Marioun, dochter lawfull to Robert STIRLING of Lotter, and dochter ot Jeane GOWTRIE, who was dochter to Mr. Alexander GOUTRIE, commendator clerk of Edinburgh, mar. in our Kirk Chapell of Holyrudhous be Mr. Johne TENNENT, parsone of Calder Saturday, 30 July 1631."
    Right... the above entry is found in a copy of 'Parish of Holyroodhouse or Canongate Register of marriages 1564 - 1800' held by the Scottish Record Society in pdf format. It states that the second volume (marriages between 1600 - 1631) was ommitted to be transcribed originally and that therefore the marriages relating to that period would now be found in the appendix, which is where I found the entry. So we can at least cite a marriage record for them, [rather than 'guessing' which seems to be the case with 'others' ]
    The pdf format can be found here...https://
    classic-web.archive.org/web/20070707231823/https://www.scotsfind.org/canongate_access/canongate.pdf
    Whilst typing this out, it has occurred to me that searching for a will of Robert Stirling might help.
    Back later......

  3. #13

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    A warm welcome to BritGen
    https://www.thepeerage.com/p1366.htm#i13658
    This site lists the children of Alexander Colquhoun of Luss as "Jean, John (his heir), Humphrey, Nancy and Katherine".

    Had hoped Sir Robert Douglas' 1764 "The Peerage of Scotland" would yield something but drew a blank. I can find references to Alexander Snr, Jean, John and Humphrey only.

  4. #14
    gasser
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    Hi Tx,
    No joy on search for a will of Robert Stirling but did find reference to the burial of "Jane, widow of Robert Stirling of Letter, April 22 1659" [copied as found]
    Have found a book entitled..."Descent and alliances of Croslegh, or Crossle, or Crossley, of Scaitcliffe; (1904) by Charles Croslegh" which gives an account of the Colquhoun lineage. On page 190 it states that Alexander and Marion 'had issue, one daughter Jeane'
    see here....https://
    archive.org/details/descentandallia00crosgoog

    cheers for now,

  5. #15
    TxRiverElf
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasser View Post
    Hi Tx,
    No joy on search for a will of Robert Stirling but did find reference to the burial of "Jane, widow of Robert Stirling of Letter, April 22 1659" [copied as found]
    Have found a book entitled..."Descent and alliances of Croslegh, or Crossle, or Crossley, of Scaitcliffe; (1904) by Charles Croslegh" which gives an account of the Colquhoun lineage. On page 190 it states that Alexander and Marion 'had issue, one daughter Jeane'
    see here....https://
    archive.org/details/descentandallia00crosgoog

    cheers for now,

    Thank you, dearly, gasser... That is pretty much what I was hoping to verify... that Marion and Alexander only had the one child... a daughter... Jeane... and of course, I appreciate the reference to widow of Robert, as that reflects the Scottish naming tradition... a first daughter named for one or the other of the grandmothers... and in this case... after Jean Gowtrie...

    Even as I type here... I have three emails that are insisting that my ancestor was the son of Alexander and Marion... and it bugs me to no end... lol... sure... it would be great if he was, since that makes following the line much easier, as the 'swells' tended to be recorded more... but... I am pleased to have traced my line back to that immigrant... with documentation all along the way... even to the fact that he was contracted to be the official brick maker for a town in New England... Swansea, Massachusetts...

    So we know he did exist... and we also know that he was killed by Indians as that two was documented... as it was on the outbreak of a war...

    And we also know that he was in Block Island....

    Cromwell did round up many surviving Scotsmen and marched them to England and then sold them as slaves...

    Those are all facts... BUT some folks are not content with facts... especially when they are hell bent on hooking up to a fancy lineage...

    sisting that my Brickmaking Ancestor (that is documented... heehee) was the son of Alexander and Marion...

    I believe that to be most aggravating because there is NO PROOF... what so ever... to that effect... and yet that falsehood is repeated and based around as if it were true... when all that I have seen has always only pointed to one female child born to Alexander and Marion... and Fraser's implication of Alexander having died without heirs... suggesting even that wee child died without providing him grand children.

  6. #16
    TxRiverElf
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasser View Post
    Found Jean's baptism entry on Scotland's people website. I did not find a marriage for Alexander and Marion. I did not find any deaths recorded either. The baptism entry states 'Marion Stirling', - it may mean they hadn't mariried. I also searched for any wills but no joy here.
    There are archives of the 'landed families and their estates ... personal family correspondence; estate accounts, including records of foreign estates, ... including Colquhoun of Luss, 1188-20th century',
    held at Archives, The Mitchell Library, North Street, Glasgow. G3 7DN
    this info was found at www.
    glasgowlife.org.uk/libraries/the-mitchell-library/archives/collections/family-and-estate-archives/Pages/default.aspx
    Other than the above, I'm not having much joy!

    Thank you, dearly, gasser... That is pretty much what I was hoping to verify... that Marion and Alexander only had the one child... a daughter... Jeane...

    And of course, I appreciate the reference to widow of Robert... one can never have too many 'facts' when it comes to our game... heehee

    Too, it is further reminder of the Scottish naming tradition... a first daughter named for one or the other of the grandmothers... and in this case... after her maternal grandmother...

    Fraser's remark about Alexander having 'seemed to have' died without heirs, is my objective. Though of course it sadly suggests that even little Jean likely died before he did... else wise she would have been his heir... right?

    Well, my fellow enthusiast, thanks again, for rattling the keys of knowledge!

    Gratefully,

  7. #17
    gasser
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    All I can say it's been a pleasure ... these Colquhouin's have led me a merry dance this week I can tell you. I'm going to leave them alone for a while but I hope I've managed to help you...... if only in a small way. I think we can be pretty sure that Alexander and Marion had just the one child, Jean(e) now it's up to you to convince the rest .....lol
    Good luck !!

  8. #18
    TxRiverElf
    Guest

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    Thanks for the enthusiastic effort, gasser! I do appreciate it!

    Of course, I will need that luck indeed, as when it comes to combating the totally illogical,
    one can never have enough facts to encourage the common sense to appreciate them!

    Wishing you many more successful hunts!

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