St Mary Church Hawksbury

[pat fowles]

malcolm99 ....I agree that Betty & John were husband & wife, just wondered if they could have been James Snells parents. He was born in Coombe Raliegh, Devon so prob unlikely.
The link on the #9 post doesn't work and now it's driving me bonkers wondering what I'm missing.

[Jan1954]

I have sent you a Private Message, Pat.

[malcolm99]

I agree that Betty & John were husband & wife, just wondered if they could have been James Snells parents. He was born in Coombe Raleigh, Devon so prob unlikely.

I think this is the main difficulty. I’ve a strong feeling that there is a connection between John/Betty and James/Sarah but I’m finding problems in proving it.

On the face of it, it looks unlikely that John was James’s father because John was an Ag Lab born in Acton Turville which is just a few miles away, over the Badminton Estate, from Hawkesbury & Hawkesbury Upton. It’s almost impossible to believe that he was in Combe Raleigh in Devon where James says he was born (see 1861 Census: RG9 Piece 1745 fol. 27 p. 12).

[It’s possible that James Snell was baptised on 28th December 1792 in Offwell, Devon (Family Search – parents James and Mary) as Offwell is only 4 miles from Combe Raleigh, on the other side of Honiton & a James Snell married a Mary Snell in Offwell on 7th June 1785 – Family Search].

One thing it would be nice to sort out (I did hope it was a key to the mystery but you’ll see later that I’ve failed to prove a connection) is with James Snell’s 1841 Census:

• 1841 Census: Swangrove, Hawkesbury, Little Badminton - HO107 Piece 358 fol. 4 p. 3
James Snell, 45, Male Servant, not born in Gloucestershire
Sarah Snell, 45, not born in Gloucestershire
Florance Anning Snell, 20, not born in Gloucestershire
Mary Anning Snell, 5, not born in Gloucestershire
Harriet Snell, 15, not born in Gloucestershire
+ 2 servants

The problem is who was Harriet and was James married twice?

In the 1841 Census it would appear that she was the sister of Florance Anning Snell and the daughter of James & Sarah Snell. Florence Anning Snell was baptised on 16th August 1817 in Chard, Somerset and her parents were James & Sarah (Family Search). The problem is that I cannot find Harriet’s baptism unless it is Harriot Snell baptised Yarcombe, Devon 30th November 1823 - parents James & Harriot Snell. Yarcombe is quite close to Chard and James Snell & Harriot Palmer married there in 1812 and had at least 7 children baptised there between 1813 and 1827.

Leaving aside the problem of Harriet’s parentage for the moment, we know that she left her son James Snell Youatt with his Grandparents James & Sarah Snell while she and the rest of her family went off to Wanlip in Leicestershire (Harriett Snell Youatt was baptised there 24th April 1852) and later to Monkton Farleigh in Wiltshire (1861 Census RG9 Piece 1299 fol. 107 p.7)>

• 1861 census: Grange End - Monument, Hawkesbury
James Snell, Head, 67, Retired Gamekeeper. Born Combe Raleigh, Devon.
Sarah Snell, Wife, 69. Born Sidbury, Devon.
James Snell Youatt**, Grandson, 14, Apprenticed Draper & Grocer. Born Hawkesbury,
Gloucestershire.
** Also with them as a “visitor” in 1851 HO107 Piece 1956 fol. 459 p. 31. I see he died in
Malmesbury RD June Quarter 1870 age 23 when he was probably back with his family.

Now James Snell Youatt, who I suspect was disabled in some way, definitely seems to have been the son of the Harriet Snell in the 1841 Census>
Harriett Snell married Thomas Youatt at Hawkesbury 17th March 1846 (Family Search). Thomas was a Game Keeper (later censuses). They had at least 2 children who were baptised at St Mary’s Hawkesbury>

• Charlotte Sarah Yonett baptised 9th July 1848. Parents Thomas & Harriett Yonett
• James Snell Youatt baptised 1st February 1847. Parents Thomas & Hariet Youatt.

Source: https://www.
simplyspecs.biz/hawkesburyhistory/index2.htm.htm

Now I did have a theory that connected James Snell Youatt who in 1861 was 14 years old and an “Apprenticed Draper and Grocer” to Mary Park, aged 53, of Kingswood (just under 5 miles from Hawkesbury). In 1851 she was a “Draper and Shopkeeper” (HO107 Piece 1958 fol. 5 p. 3) and there is good evidence to point to her being John & Betty’s daughter** but this appears to be her only appearance in the Census and I can’t trace a marriage for Mary Snell and a Mr Park, so any possible link has nothing to back it at the moment.

** Mary Snell was baptised at the Calvinistic Methodists Tabernacle at Wooton Under Edge on 19th October 1797 (born 14th June 1797). Parents: John & Elizabeth Snell. [Family Search & TNA: RG4 Piece 395 folio 19]. Remember Betty probably came from Wotton and she and John were married there in 1796 (#10).

So everything’s up in the air but I’m still convinced there’s a connection between John & Betty & James & Sarah out there somewhere - and there are a lot of unanswered questions and possibilities that need exploring....

[pat fowles]

Thanks Jan1954 for the info., and malcolm99. Re 1841 census: Harriet Snell was James and Sarahs daughter, she was baptised in Luppitt, Devon in 1827. The Mary Ann Snell on this census was their Grandaughter. Sarah Snell was from Sidbury, Devon and there is no marriage record for her marriage to James, I think it's most likely they married in Sidbury, unfortunately the early parish records for Sidbury were destroyed in a fire.

[janbooth]

More info on Sarah KILMINSTER:

Family Search has the marriage at Hawkesbury on 9 April 1797 of a Sarah WEBB to a William KILMINSTER. This marriage is confirmed by Phillimore's Marriage Index so that would appear to corroborate the marriage of John SNELL & Betty WEBB at Hawkesbury in 1793.

Not that it helps with your theory of a relationship between John & James SNELL.

Janet

[malcolm99]

More info on Sarah KILMINSTER:

Family Search has the marriage at Hawkesbury on 9 April 1797 of a Sarah WEBB to a William KILMINSTER. This marriage is confirmed by Phillimore's Marriage Index so that would appear to corroborate the marriage of John SNELL & Betty WEBB at Hawkesbury in 1793.

Yes that fits nicely. Sarah Killminster in the 1851 John Snele Census comes from North Nibley and there’s a baptism for a Sarah Webb at North Nibley 23rd June 1771 (quite close to her age of 82 in the 1851 Census).

If Sarah was Betty/Elizabeth’s sister and was 74 in 1841 then there is a baptism for an Elisabeth Webb in North Nibley on 18th May 1768 (Family Search).

William Kilminster was buried at Hawkesbury on 2nd November 1845, aged 77.

[markedwardcatt]

Hello everyone. Thanks for the great information on the Snells in Hawksbury. I'm a descendent of James the Gamekeeper at Badminton.

malcolm99 : you mentioned earlier in the thread that "He [James Snell] also won a prize for growing flowers - but that can wait for another day! "

would you have any more information on that ? I'd be very interested to hear !

Cheers,
Mark