I have traced those notices in the papers and I even have a short article about the case. Its in the Caledonian Mercury 25 july 1822 labeled Jury Court july 16. However the scan is so distorted that the text is just partly readble. As english is not my native language that also puts up a barrier of interpretation
However in that article another name shows up. One part in ths case was "Berry and Sanderson". After William Elder had commited suicide a Peter Berry Sanderson took over the mine in Sweden. Ive even heard but not been able to confirm that Elder was sent to Sweden by a Sanderson to maintain the mine 1830´s. So the names supports the my idea that William Elder (the mine owner) was the son of William Elder (the glover). Only need to find some documentation on Sweden that gives his birthdate. I have a couple of leads but It will take some time to get the docs.
Results 11 to 20 of 21
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20-01-2013, 10:17 PM #11DanielPetterzonGuest
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20-01-2013, 11:03 PM #12
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20-01-2013, 11:29 PM #13
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Having worked out a vague family tree form what I have read.....
Willaim ELDER could have been born 25 September 1795 baptised 1 October 1795 South Leith Midlothian
see the free site www.familysearch.org
Hopefully this link will show the family
https://familysearch.org/search/reco...ion_id=1771030
You should be able to view the original documents by ordering the films form a resource centre near you. See centre of toolbar.
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28-01-2013, 9:42 AM #14DanielPetterzonGuest
Thanks
The William Elder Im looking into is probably the same as the one born 25 sep 1795. However Ive not been able to be 100% sure on this since I dont have any source in Sweden concering his family in Scotland. The only information I have that gives some indications to his family is the obituary that mentions him being connected to firm Alexander Elder & Co. Looking at names connected to the firm there are some interesting names that points strongly to that he is the younger son in the Elder family from South Leith.
https://queenslandfamilytrees.com/get...ID=I113&tree=5
William Elder senior, Alexander Elder, George Elder and William Elder are all names that fit very well. So Im quite sure but Ill stay on it until Im 100%
At this point Ive found out the William married a swedish woman Kristina Elmkvist and had a son Wilhelm that died the day after he was born in 1837. Ive ordered some court papers concerning the mine and hopefully they give some more information about Elder.
Btw I know this is a long shot. Ive been trying to se if there is a picture of Elder but has drawn a blank. Since he died in 1838 photos are most surely out of the question. But paintings perhaps. Is there any registers available in Scotland over portraits?
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29-01-2013, 1:11 AM #15
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Have a look at the One name study Guild for ELDER
https://www.
one-name.org/profiles/elder.htmlLast edited by Jan1954; 29-01-2013 at 6:25 AM. Reason: Url edited - they sell books and charge for membership
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29-01-2013, 11:42 PM #16DanielPetterzonGuest
I think Ive just (probably) cracked it. Ive just found a note in a Swedish parish register over newborns. I knew from earlier that Elder had a wife - Christin Elmqvist. So I looked her up in the local parish register and found out that she had a son in 1836. The boy was named Willhelm and he died the day after he was born. His name got me started Wilhelm and William father and son coincidence?
Strangley she was listed as unmarried (demoiselle) and no father was listed. So in other words in Sweden the boy would have been "illegitimate", born outside the marriage.
But when I looked at the wittnesses at the baptizing I almost fell of my chair. Two names were English and among those one name stood out like a beacon - George Eldeer from Kirkcould England. Knowing how we Swedes pronounce things especially back then when basicly no one in ths rural area had heard english before I find it very probable that Kircould is the same as Kircaldy. The priest wrote what he heard basicly. As I know that no George Elder was present at the mines I think that William Elder used his brothers name George Elder or used his partners, George Alexander, first name. This in a way to fly under the radar and avoid being connected to a son he had with an unmarried swedish woman. I also know that in 1836 the things at the mine started to heat up as he had problems with one of the partners. So if this "scandal" had gotten out he probably would have an even bigger headache.
This would then put him as being from Kircaldy with the other sons of George Elder the glower.
Btw is there any places in Scotland that reads something like outhmouth. I cant read the first letter and it looks like Southmouth or Northmouth. (its a note in the same parish register)Last edited by DanielPetterzon; 29-01-2013 at 11:44 PM. Reason: spelling
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30-01-2013, 7:16 AM #17DanielPetterzonGuest
Mistake by me Christin Elmqvist is listed as mamsell not a demoiselle. Mixed up the lines in the record. So she definitly is a "Miss" not a "Mrs".
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24-02-2013, 8:00 AM #18Alastair DowneyGuest
In the book the book "The Life and work of James Abernethy" mention is made on pages 35 Alexander Lang ELDER, of Campden House, Kensington and Mrs LUXMORE of Plymouth.
From the newspaper "Caledonian Mercury" (Edinburgh, Scotland), Monday, April 4, 1825; Issue 16165 there is the following annoucement
MARRIED
At St Phillip's Church Liverpool.,on the 26th ultimo,
Mr John LUXMORE, of Plymouth, to
Miss ELDER only daughter of the
late Alexander ELDER, merchant, Kirkcaldy
English Census records for Plymouth give her 1st name as Christina and that she was born about in 1802 in Fife, Scotland
There is a Christian ELDER was born 17 Sep 1801 at Kirkcaldy the daughter of Aleander ELDER & Agnes SWINTON.
Alastair
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17-10-2013, 12:48 PM #19
The Kentish Gazette, Canterbury, Oct 23, 1838
On Thursday last an inquest was held at the Town Hall, Gravesend, on the body of Mr William Elder, aged 45, late of the firm of Alexander Elder & Co, bankers, in Kircudbrightshire, Scotland, who put an end to his life last Sunday by hanging himself. From the evidence it appeared that deceased was the owner of the Manganese mines near Gottenburg in Sweden. In consequence of the mercantile embarrassments of the house of Ebenezer Ferrier & Co, of London, and from these parties he was to have a certain sum for every ton of ore they shipped; but not having received so much as he had expected, he became very much affected on this account, and his mind had been very unsettled. Verdict - Temporary derangement.
I think that this is a tribute to the "somewhere in Scotland, begins with Kirk..." school of journalism.
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04-12-2014, 10:08 PM #20DanielPetterzonGuest
Been awhile since I visited this thread. Thanks for all replies and the PMs.
Some Days ago I got a message from a Swedish genealogist who had located William Elder in Swedish records. According to those records William Elder was born in Liverpool 11 march 1792. This however confuses me quite a bit. The thing is Im as convinced as one can be that he is the same William Elder as this one https://queenslandfamilytrees.com/get...=I12226&tree=5
Even if I havent found a direct Connection to him, all the articles and other records puts him in the Close vicinity this family He was part of the Alexander Elder & Co bankers from Kirkcauldy. And all the names and places that show up puts him in Scotland. As an example Alexander Elders daughter Christina Luxmoore was a wittness at the baptising of William Elders son Wilhelm in Sweden. So in other Words the circumstantial evidence is really really strong. But the birtdates and birthplaces are wrong.
So Im hoping that perhaps someone can help me find out if there is any records that mentions a William Elder born 1792 or 1795 in Liverpool or if there is a Connection between the scottish Elders and Liverpool.
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