Samuel Baylis, hiding in the 1871 census.

[Philippa_Harvey]

Samuel Baylis, born Ireland ~1821, scene painter or scenic artist, is missing in action from the 1871 census.

In 1851 he is living at 106 Gallowgate Street Glasgow. He is head of household and has one of his children with him, plus a dressmaker and her daughter. His second child is visiting her aunt and uncle at 31 Saltmarket Street Glasgow on census night. (Household Schedule 89, Page 3, line 16, roll CSSCT1851_161)

This is my first foray into census territory and I just realised I forgot to record the references to the English Census. Is it still OK to post without this? Will happily accept a smack on the wrist if a mod finds it necessary and then go and do my homework. Sorry!!

In 1861 he is living at 27 Redford Street Manchester, with 7 children including the dressmaker’s daughter who is now recorded as his. The dressmaker is shown as unmarried and a servant at the same address.

In 1871 his wife (formerly dressmaker/servant) is living at 10 Bulters Court Preston with 3 children. Samuel is not there.

In 1881 Samuel’s back, head of household, unemployed painter, with his wife, a married son, a widowed daughter and her son, plus 3 unmarried daughters. Their address is 36 Chaddock Street Preston.

My access to the census records is via Ancestry and I’ve searched the 1871 census for England and Scotland until my eyes are crossed most painfully, but I can find no trace of Samuel at all.

Does anyone have any idea of where he might be?

Please????

Philippa

[Pam Downes]

Census references

Samuel 1861
RG9/2941 folio 65 page 7

Samuel 1881
RG11/4238 folio 85 page 50

Mary in 1871
RG10/4204 folio 161 page 36

Pam

[pennydog]

This looks like Samuel and some of his children in 1871 RG10/2874/57/27 at Caroline Street, Longton, Stoke on Trent.

He is lodging with Elizabeth Crutchley b1794 and her 18 year old granddaughter Emily.

Samuel is enumerated as born in England and is his occupation is 'Artist'.

He has with him, Thomas, Mary and Samuel all born Scotland and Charles born Yorkshire/Sheffield and are all musicians.

[Philippa_Harvey]

Pam, thank you for finding those references - I will remember next time, I promise. Felt a bit of a goose when I got to write the questions and there they weren't!! Hanging head.

Pennydog it looks as though you did it. How? And so quickly? You are definitely a gem of the first water, thank you so much.

Off now to look at Ancestry again and see if I can duplicate the find.

I'd love to say I may have even seen the entry but ignored it because of the place of birth but I can't tell a lie, even via the keyboard. It's so much more likely that I just didn't see it at all.

Thank you again, I really do appreciate it.

Philippa

[bayless]

Pam, thank you for finding those references - I will remember next time, I promise. Felt a bit of a goose when I got to write the questions and there they weren't!! Hanging head.

Pennydog it looks as though you did it. How? And so quickly? You are definitely a gem of the first water, thank you so much.

Off now to look at Ancestry again and see if I can duplicate the find.

I'd love to say I may have even seen the entry but ignored it because of the place of birth but I can't tell a lie, even via the keyboard. It's so much more likely that I just didn't see it at all.

Thank you again, I really do appreciate it.

Philippa

Philippa I just ran into this same situation and found this post. Great job Pennydog! Now I'm looking for the missing wife. What happened to Sarah Stevens? I've searched Scotland's People but no death or other record explaining her disappearance.

[Philippa_Harvey]

Hi Bayless - don't tell me there's a connection here? Surely not. I've spent years chasing various family branches and met only a couple of researchers who were even almost mine!! How do you fit into this convoluted picture?

My interest in the Bayliss (however spelt) family is only because a daughter, Fanny (Frances), married Frederick Russell in Manchester and they almost immediately (well, give or take a few months I guess) set sail for Australia. They arrived in Queensland in the latter part of 1864, complete with a daughter who had been born during the voyage.

Frederick was my great-grandmother's brother.

For some reason or other I "took a shine" to Fanny and Frederick and wanted to do a little extra which might work towards completing my picture of them before they left the UK. The Australian ending wasn't all that delightful because apparently Fanny ended up with someone else and Frederick died alone as a labourer on a remote property in Queensland. I have had contact with some NZ descendants of Fanny's second life but that was a little while ago and because I've no new information to share the contact has lapsed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the search for Fanny's parents should be more concentrated in England than Scotland, but confess to not following through on this since the last entry on this thread. Your message has revitalised my interest - I've gone a little stale recently and really need a kick to get me going again.

Let me know how you fit, what you found and what you'd like to know and maybe we can achieve something as a team!!

So good to hear from (hopefully) another family contact.

[bayless]

Hi Bayless - don't tell me there's a connection here? Surely not. I've spent years chasing various family branches and met only a couple of researchers who were even almost mine!! How do you fit into this convoluted picture?

My interest in the Bayliss (however spelt) family is only because a daughter, Fanny (Frances), married Frederick Russell in Manchester and they almost immediately (well, give or take a few months I guess) set sail for Australia. They arrived in Queensland in the latter part of 1864, complete with a daughter who had been born during the voyage.

Frederick was my great-grandmother's brother.

For some reason or other I "took a shine" to Fanny and Frederick and wanted to do a little extra which might work towards completing my picture of them before they left the UK. The Australian ending wasn't all that delightful because apparently Fanny ended up with someone else and Frederick died alone as a labourer on a remote property in Queensland. I have had contact with some NZ descendants of Fanny's second life but that was a little while ago and because I've no new information to share the contact has lapsed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the search for Fanny's parents should be more concentrated in England than Scotland, but confess to not following through on this since the last entry on this thread. Your message has revitalised my interest - I've gone a little stale recently and really need a kick to get me going again.

Let me know how you fit, what you found and what you'd like to know and maybe we can achieve something as a team!!

So good to hear from (hopefully) another family contact.

Instead of a 'Brick Wall' I have a liquid ocean in my way. John Bayles born about 1617 in England is my problem. The only real indication of his origin is that he settled in Southold, Long Island, New Amsterdam (later became New York). The group he was with were from Norfolk, England and named the new settlement after a village in the homeland. There is an old story about John being born in Norwich St Peter Mancroft, however the parish register doesn't support that. Rather than waste my time wallowing in the mire of Secretary Hand, I decided to have a DNA test and find out where my ancestors really were. The result was all over England, Europe and the US. That gave me the idea that if I work on any Bayles (whatever spelling) I might come across a line that would tie into mine - surely John had brothers, sisters, who stayed in England. That may not work, but I'd rather be doing something which might help someone else, than becoming frustrated. As you know there's nothing more frustrating than trying to find Irish or Scots records, so I may not last long on this family.

Fanny seems to have lost her mother, Sarah Stevens by the 1851 Census and her father Samuel apparently invites Mary Ann Ayres into the home to help with the children. She brings her daughter Mary Ayres into the home but as you stated, she becomes Samuel's daughter by 1861. More children join the family about every 2-3 years as they move from Glasgow to Sheffield, to Manchester and then settle in Preston. Samuel and Mary Ann marry in 1875 - I've sent for the certificate hoping it will give a parent of either bride or groom. At least we know Samuel had a sister named Mary who is the wife of Samuel Sloan, yet they disappear (perhaps to Australia?) by 1861. I like a good mystery, and this one is about as good as they get in genealogy. Even though we haven't found a direct connection, I'm sure you must be a cousin of some degree. Hope we can solve this mystery.

[bayless]

The certificate arrived and shows that Samuel's father is Thomas (musician) and Mary Ann's is Richard (cabinet maker). The witness's are William and Mary Huntington. So far I haven't found any of them directly linked to Samuel and Mary Ann. The mystery continues!

[caladh]

The certificate arrived and shows that Samuel's father is Thomas (musician) and Mary Ann's is Richard (cabinet maker). The witness's are William and Mary Huntington. So far I haven't found any of them directly linked to Samuel and Mary Ann. The mystery continues!

Good evening Bayless, I found your post on Google and realise that you posted a number of months ago so hope that this is still of interest to you. I have been researching the Baylis family for a number of years. Two things might be of interest to you. There is a marriage shown in the Old Parish Records in Scotland for Samuel Blakeney Baylis and Mary Ann Ayres in 1848 in Glasgow. The Old Parish records show the banns, notification of intent to marry as well as marriages and possibly the marriage did not follow the calling of the banns as you have found a marriage in England in 1875. It is slightly odd that as has been mentioned, Ann Ayres is shown as a lodger in the 1851 census when the marriage/ banns was listed in 1848.
Secondly, the Mary Huntington you mentioned could be Mary Baylis, the sister of Samuel Baylis who was married to Samuel Sloan owner of Oddfellows Music hall Saltmarket Glasgow. Arthur Llloyd's music hall and theatre website mentions that Samuel Sloan died in 1853 which is a great help as the death is not registered in Scotland. A Mary Baylis subsequently marries William Huntington in 1854 in Glasgow and there must be a good possibility that this is the same Mary Baylis ie Samuel Baylis's sister. This also explains why the Sloans are not on the 1861 census. Hope this is of some help to you.