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  1. #11
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coromandel View Post
    As she's not married (and is a curate's sister-in-law!) I think it very unlikely that she's your Sarah.
    Sorry, I am mixing up two people: it was the head of the household where Eliza was who was the curate; the Sarah Smith born in Berwick was sister-in-law of the college butler. Sorry to confuse things. Time to get a cup of tea I think!

  2. #12

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    Benwick is in Cambridgeshire but there could be others or illegible on the census. It seems odd that she is listed as living in 1861 in Headington - St Clement ( I think St.Clement is a street- will check map again ) if it is not my Sarah Smith ,as two of her children. Eliza - aged 26 and George aged 28 are also living there.Will check to see how many others of her 12 children were there. I'll try to retrieve relevant ref. nos - but I'm new to this and going slightly mad trying to keep track of everyone ! Thanks to you both for all your help !

  3. #13
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zingari View Post
    Benwick is in Cambridgeshire.
    I know there is a Benwick in Cambridgeshire, but it does not say 'Cambridgeshire' in the Genes Reunited index. I suspect that the Sarah shown as born in Benwick in the indexes on Genes Reunited (and Findmypast) is the one shown as born in Berwick on Tweed on the actual census. I just can't find another Sarah of the same age in that district. I can't stress enough how important it is to look beyond the index and check what it says in the census enumerator's books. (Sorry to nag. You must be getting fed up with me.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zingari View Post
    two of her children. Eliza - aged 26 and George aged 28 are also living there.
    As I've said, I can see Eliza and she's shown as born in Stonesfield. However, I cannot see a Stonesfield-born George Smith. Also, from the 1871 census (which I quote somewhere above) I was expecting George to be a lot younger. What does it say for the birthplace of the George who you've found? Can you see whose house he's in?

    P.S. I see that Ancestry is available in Devon libraries, so you should be able to see the census returns there. (The member trees etc. aren't available on Ancestry Library Edition though, at least I can't ever find them.)

  4. #14
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    I'll try to retrieve relevant ref. nos - but I'm new to this and going slightly mad trying to keep track of everyone ! Thanks to you both for all your help !
    As Coromandel has said it is important to keep a note of the source and reference of your infomation.

    I too have looked through the 1861 census and cannot come up with the information you are giving.....

    Another thing I note is the children's forenames do not seem to have a Romany influence

    You have Francis G SMITH b 1850 Oxfordshire married Mary PAXFORD ( Not a noted Romany nasme) masybe this also needs to be our starting point.......

    Other than gypsyjib...have you looked at the other Romany sites?

  5. #15
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zingari View Post
    It seems odd that she is listed as living in 1861 in Headington - St Clement ( I think St.Clement is a street- will check map again ) if it is not my Sarah Smith
    I think this means the St Clements subdistrict of the Headington registration district. The Headington registration district was a large one, and only had two subdistricts (St Clements and Wheatley). All these places were in the district:

    https://www.
    ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/headington.html

    including parts of the city of Oxford.

  6. #16
    janbooth
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    From the Oxon FHS Parish Register Transcripts of Stonesfield:

    30 July 1827 William SMITH, bachelor, married Sarah STONE, spinster, both of the parish. Both marked and the witnesses were James ROBERTS who signed and Sarah POOL who marked, who by the way married each other at Stonesfield on 26 December 1827.

    Janet

  7. #17
    janbooth
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    Baptisms at Stonesfield to this couple from the same source:

    30 September 1827 James SMITH son of William & Sarah, Labourer
    26 July 1829 William SMITH son of William & Sarah, Labourer
    4 December 1831 John SMITH son of William & Sarah, Labourer
    8 September 1833 George SMITH son of William & Sarah, Labourer, bur 4 February 1850, aged 16
    1 March 1835 Eliza SMITH daughter of William & Sarah, Labourer
    21 May 1837 Mary Maria SMITH daughter of William & Sarah, Labourer
    13 October 1839 Lydia SMITH daughter of William & Sarah, Labourer
    24 January 1841 Sarah SMITH daughter of William & Sarah, Labourer
    10 September 1843 Daniel SMITH son of William & Sarah, Labourer
    20 April 1845 Ann SMITH daughter of William & Sarah, Labourer, bur 14 May 1845, aged 7 weeks
    7 July 1850 Francis George SMITH son of William & Sarah, Labourer

    Sarah is a widow by the 1871 census (RG10/1448, folio 104, pages 16/17) when she is in Stonesfield living with unmarried children John, Daniel, Frank & another George aged 14 born Stonesfield.

    Have a look through this information and see if it ties in with what you definitely know about your family. If it does, I can hopefully give you further information from the PR Transcripts.

    Janet

  8. #18
    janbooth
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    Default SMITH family

    Sorry, forgot to add the burial for William SMITH. It was on 20 December 1867, aged 64. The Transcripts only have baptisms to 1855, burials to 1878 and marriages to 1837 which explains why I do not have a baptismal record for the second George.

    Janet

  9. #19

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    Janet - It looks like you may have found my Sarah ! Thank you so much ! Will I be able to access the Oxon FHS Parish Register on line ! I wonder if it gives other information e.g. William and Sarah's parents names.
    Coromandel - thanks for your private message - appreciate your research and suggestions. I agree that William and Sarah gave their children non-Roma names but I wonder if they decided to become more settled and mainstream ? My grandmother ,Annie Smith (maiden name ) who was William and Sarah's granddaughter and my father , her son, looked very Roma ( dark skin, black hair ,dark eyes - didn't look Anglo at all.) It was accepted that Annie came from a Gypsy family but until I started researching I knew very little.

  10. #20

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    Janet - Thanks again ! I have almost the same list of children as you - didn't have an Ann b. 1845 . I also have children born after 1851- Frank - 1851 Daniel 1853 another George -1857. Given infant mortality and childhood diseases I would be surprised if all of her 14 ? children lived to adulthood .
    I have William dying in 1867 aged 64 but don't know about Sarah's death. She is in the 1881 census aged 72 but not in the 1891 ( I may not have found her ) So I wonder if she died between those dates.

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