Daniel James (Gwyrosydd) 1848, 3 Missing Daug

[JohnG_Swansea]

I'm looking for three sisters, daughters of the Welsh poet Daniel James (Gwyrosydd).

Margaret Ann James, birth registered Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales, Q4, 1873.
Catherine Mary James (may be known as Mary), birth registered Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales, Q2, 1879.
Olwen James, birth registered Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales, Q2, 1887.

(Only 2 or 3 people with this name were born before 1893, but records may include the spellings 'Ollwen' or 'Oliven' etc.)

They are missing from the 1891 and 1901 UK censuses (Margaret Ann and Olwen have been found in the 1911 census) they may have been in the US for a period between December 1887, when their mother died, and Q4, 1902 when Margaret Ann's marriage was registered in Swansea.

The girls were probably with adults, (not their parents) who's surname may have been James, who were probably of Welsh origin. One of the adults may have been an older man named John.

I have searched UK Incoming Passenger lists, for their return home, without success.

If anyone can help me find these girls and the people they were with during the period 1888 - 1902, I would be very grateful.

JohnG, Swansea.

[Megan Roberts]

If Margaret Ann was born 1873 then she should be in the 1881 Census, as would her sister Catherine. Have you found them there, and if so what is the reference?

[JohnG_Swansea]

Good Morning Megan,

If Margaret Ann was born 1873 then she should be in the 1881 Census, as would her sister Catherine. Have you found them there, and if so what is the reference?

I am reasonably confident I have traced the family to 207 Llangyfelach, Swansea. GRO: 11/ 5352/ folio 95/ page 20:
The family being:

Daniel Jame (32) Iron Works Puddler,
Ann James, (31) Wife
Margaret (7) Scholar,
Mary (3) ditto [scholar]

I realise the three year old is shown as Mary, however the details for the others seems to tie in with my own and other peoples research.

There is separately researched information on the TreboethHistoryGroup (dot) com website.

I trust this helps.

JohnG Swansea.

[helachau]

https://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-03/1080546724

see above link

[Megan Roberts]

1891 Census Daniel and Gwellian JONES - Bridgend - Class: RG12; Piece: 4452; Folio: 140; Page: 88. Daughters not there.

Ancestry has a record of an Olwen N James arriving in New York in 1923 aboard the Leviathan - she was said to be from Port Talbot born 1887 (and English!). FMP has the record of the same departure, but there she is Olwen H.

In 1901, the best match I can find for Olwen is in Margam RG13; Piece: 5053; Folio: 152; Page: 42 but there her parents are said to John and Kate James. However the age is right, and there is also a Mary A born 1878 (?Margaret) and a Catherine born 1880. But there are also other children as well.

I suspect that the above is not right.

There were 2 Olwen/Ollwen James born 1887 - 1 in Swansea and 1 in Neath. I suspect that the 1901 census record found is for the one born in Neath.

[JohnG_Swansea]

Hello Again Megan

Firstly very many thanks for your research, you have confirmed what I have achieved so far, which is indeed very re-assuring, and confirms that I have been moving in the right direction.

>> 1891 Census Daniel and Gwellian JONES - Bridgend - Class: RG12; Piece: 4452; Folio: 140; Page: 88. Daughters not there.

This page has been looked at with considerable interest, it was not the esiest of pages to find and it wasn't until I started looking for Gwenllian that I realised the impact that 'transcription errors' can have, did you realise that in addition to the James to Jones error, that William H. is listed as Parry, when he should be James. Anyway, you have confirmed that I'm working in the correct direction. for which I thank you.

>> Ancestry has a record of an Olwen N James arriving in New York in 1923 aboard the Leviathan - she was said to be from Port Talbot born 1887 (and English!). FMP has the record of the same departure, but there she is Olwen H.

A****y links this individual (Olwen N James) to searches for Janiel James 1848, but I have reason to believe that this is a red-herring.

My logic is:
'Our' Olwen James re-appears in the 1911 census living with her elder (now) married sister Margaret Ann Matthews at Bishops Terrace (Vicarage Road) Morriston, see GRO: RG14/ 32754/ s.221/ p.442 the confirmation is that Olwen is shown as sister-in-law to the head of the household.

My further research shows:

That an Olwen James married a Joseph A. Longstaff in Swansea Q1 1915.

At one time I had access to Daniel James Death certificate but for some reason I can no longer read it clearly, I seem to recall that the informant was named Longstaff.

That the South Wales Evening Post of 15 March 1920 lists an Albert Longstaff as a Son in Law at Daniel's funeral.

Dare I suggest that the Olwen James that arrived in New York in 1923, is, as you suggest, not the correct person.

I am inclined to think that as Olwen and elder sister Margaret Ann re-appear together at the time of the 1911 census, that there might be a reasonable expectation that they were together, possibly with sister Catherine/ Mary, from the time of their mothers death on Christmas Eve 1887.

The Question is,
I wonder where they were?

There is mention on the TreboethHistoryGroup website of a poem by Daniel in which he mentions an Uncle John going to America.

My Original research started as the result of the Local Council (Swansea) seeking nominations for 'Blue Plaques' and I thought 'Gwyrosydd' (Daniel James, Swansea, 1848) being the writer of Calon Lân (much performed by Welsh choirs and Rugby supporters) might have been an appropriate nominee.

Once again Megan, Thank you for your efforts so far.

Regards, JohnG Swansea.