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  1. #11
    Loves to help with queries
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    Default rachel Martin and Joseph Hart

    Quote Originally Posted by phillip View Post
    For researchers seeking early data on Sephardic lines see "The Mahamed as an Arbitration Court". Edgar Samuel Jewish Historical Studies Vol 41 2007 ( online). I noted reference to Aaron Nunes Martines marrying Dinah Cohen 1793 plus a range of names in early records. See also on British Jewry Archives a range of posts relating to the Nunes Martinez families.
    From Synagogue Scribes GSM 315/42 the marriage 8 June 1836 between Rachel Martin - father's Hebrew name Isaac Nunes Martines to Joseph Hart -father's Hebrew name Isaac.
    Phillip
    lovely remark in the Records Josephs mother is another Rachel who father is referred to as Moise Martin the Sephardi... ( nice piece of patronization) and his father Isaac as Yozela Hatter..

  2. #12
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    the Sarah (Abigail s daughter) you mention aged 11 was my great grandmother.. her brothers were Joseph, Abraham (Pincus) and Michael (Myer)who actually appear on The Jewish Free School records plus a much younger sister called Rachel..

    Would still love to know why Birmingham.... and David Ashers Father.. who was he, and by chance the couple who got married in Birmingham in 1868 were they related to our Ashers and Cohens

    again many thanks Philip

  3. #13
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    vaguely recall that the Cohen with the confectionery was Emmanuel and Sophie Cohen butonwards in Birmingham... I do very much think
    as my message said last night, they were marrying cousins,,, we need to remember that this is well before the flood of immigrants from Russia etc in the 1880's.. the community whilst well established and settled in a number of locations was not huge.

  4. #14
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    Something completely irrelevant.. but for the first decades of the resettlement all meetings of the Board of Deputies (Jewish Community) were held in Portuguese.... not Spanish nor even English..

  5. #15

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    I suspect that this is Abraham Cohen who was born Middx and moved to Birmingham. May explain why he moved.
    The London Gazette 10 April 1835- Bankrupt- Abraham Cohen formerly of Middlesex St Spitalfields next 45 Rosemary Lane Tower Hill General Dealer, next Fleur de Lis St Norton Falgate;next of Fleur de Lis Court amd late of Lamb St Spitalfields Middx - Confectioner and General Dealer
    Phillip

  6. #16

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    Kevin
    I have no links to the Cohen/Asher lines but am happy to help. I have looked at Lisa Mary's family tree on Ancestry Com and can begin to make sense of the issues. She has Myer Asher 1764-1818 married Judith Abrahams 1775-1818 with their children as Benjamin,Asher,Myers; David 1810-1866, Abraham 1811-1880.
    On Synagogue Scribes GSM038/2 there is the marriage of Myer Asher (Meir) 23 Aug 1797 father's Hebrew name Asher Schneider to Judith Abrahams -father's Hebrew name Wolf Opich. Interestingly, there is the marriage also GSM038/3 Solomon Asher father's Hebrew name Asher Schneider 24 August 1797 to Sally Abrahams-father's Hebrew name Wolf Opich. So, you have brothers marrying Abraham's sisters. There is also a family history record of Ephraim Levie 1759 m Judith Jettele Asher in 1807 -Judith Judic Gittele bat Asher Asser/Schneider.
    Phillip

  7. #17
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    So is Sarah Cohen the mother of David Asher the daughter of Dove or not,,?

    On the other hand looking at the names it does seem that Teresa and Simon may indeed have had family in Birminghan

    Kevin

  8. #18

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    Kevin
    I can only go by what I have seen on the various Ancestry Com family trees plus Jewish roots family tree site. From what I can make out Dove is the mother of Sarah plus others. You will need to check the data yourself for accuracy because I have no access to Bevis Marks records. This is a summary:
    Moses Cohen 29 March 1784-1832 m Dove (Deborah) Paloma de Isaac Nunes Martinez 1788-1876 - see FreeBMD to check records). They were married Bevis Marks 16 March 1806. Her parents David Martin ( Nunez Martinez) and Sarah Vitta
    Dove then married Abraham Ottelengui ( the surname spelling in records varies considerably)
    Dove married Abraham 28 March 1847 -24 Tenter St- see Free BMD marriages April qtr 1847 London 2 184b

    The 1851 Census ( HO107 1543 666 21 Crown Copyright,TNA) has Abraham Ottolengue M 53 no occup b Whitechapel; Deborah Ottolengue wife 63 b Whitechapel- 9 Tilley St Spitalfields
    1861 They are both in the Portuguese Hospital for Jews and Deborah remains there in 1871
    1861 RG9 299 122 25 ( Crown Copyright,TNA) Portuguese Hospital for Jews - Deborah Ottelengui Inmate 75 b Leman St; Abraham Ottelengui 69 b Holland
    Nb Note the discrepancy in where Abraham is born- Whitechapel 1851; 1861 Holland
    Abraham dies April qtr age 77 1866 London 1c 443
    1871 Census RG10 565 122 15 ( Crown Copyright,TNA) Portuguese Jews Hospital Mile End Rd-Deborah Ottelengue widow 86 Inmate + a Hannah Martin inmate W 52 among
    many others

    That's as much as I can summarise and you might now want to 'dig deeper' on relationships. Hope it helps.
    Phillip

  9. #19

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    Kevin
    See- Bevis Marks Burial Records 1733-1918 Part 6 online for- Abraham Ottolengui 10 May 1866/7425; Deborah Ottolengui widow 11 May 1876/8027 plus the records include their marriage 28.5.1847 24 Tenter St Tenter Grounds. They are buried in the Novo ( New) Cemetery.
    You might want to check JewishGen -UK Data bases for any other records on the lines plus the British Jewry data bases plus Cemetery and Synagogue Scribes amongst others.
    Phillip

  10. #20
    mrsandrea
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    Thanks Kevin for telling me about this forum. My great grandfather was Samuel Cohen, born in Wreschen, Germany in 1843. Married Theresa Ascher (born 1847) Cohen 5 Feb 1868 in Birmingham. They had 7 kids, 5 born in Birmingham. Samuel's parents,also German were Ezekiel Cohen and Nettie Baum. They lived at 11 Lench Street, Birmingham. Theresa Ascher's parents were Michael Jacob Ascher and mom Pauline (do not know maiden name) LISA, I found your Abraham Cohen in online directory of Birmingham https://www.historicaldirectories.org I will let you know when I dig up more info on the ASCHERS. Andrea in California (it is actually raining here for a nice change)

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