William Thomas VINES

[tony vines]

It has been suggested that a man by this name who was born in 1881 in Leicestershire UK may have moved to Canada sometime after 1910. he may have emigrated from the UK; returned home for a while and then gone back to Canada for good. However I can find no record of him on outgoing passenger lists and unfortunately his life after emigrating is completely unknown. I therefore wonder if any of our Canadian subscribers can throw any light on this man or his descendants.

cheers

[Nankervis]

There was a William Thomas Vines born 2nd quarter 1881 in Barrow upon Soar, Leicestershire.
Parents could be William Vines and Sarah Merchant who married 4th quarter 1878 in Barrow upon Soar.

Although I can see the family in the 1911 census there is no sign of William Thomas and I cannot see him on any outgoing
passenger lists........ I don't suppose this post has helped you really :-)

[Colin Rowledge]

A William Thomas Vines, born abt 1881 left England on board the "Ionian" and arrived in Quebec on 1 May 1905 I acknowledge this date does not correspond, but he was a Joiner by trade and from Leicester and was headed for Toronto.
This is from Canadian Passenger lists 1865-1935

Apart from the date of arrival do any other circumstances fit

Colin

[Nankervis]

A W T Vines left Liverpool on the Ionian 20.4.1905 and the passenger destination is stated as Montreal.

[tony vines]

Thanks both. Nankervis the William Vines you refer to in your first post is the right man.

He apparently visited Canada, liked what he saw but came back to Leicester to marry and then returned. So the 1905 date could be correct for the first visit. He was a joiner in the 1901 census in Leicester so it is almost certainly the right man.

Now if you can find him later that would be great. Incidentally he did not bring his wife with him and they had a daughter in Leicester in 1912 so the search period for the second emigration must start in 1911 at the earliest.

Thanks so far.

[Nankervis]

I have now found him in the 1911 census living in Sandford Road, Syston as an Insurance Agent.
He was married to an Edith Annie........ ? and they married in the 2nd quarter, 1910.

[Nankervis]

I've checked the passenger lists again for 1911 onwards and there is no sign of a Vines, W or WT heading to Canada
with the correct birth year.
Perhaps Colin could check on the incoming lists for 1911 onwards ..

[Colin Rowledge]

Now if you can find him later that would be great. Incidentally he did not bring his wife with him and they had a daughter in Leicester in 1912 so the search period for the second emigration must start in 1911 at the earliest.

Thanks so far.

Do you have the name of the wife and daughter? Did they join him later, do you know?

Found something much later on in the early 1920's but not satisfied it's your chap.

Colin

[Colin Rowledge]

Do you have the name of the wife and daughter? Did they join him later, do you know?

Found something much later on in the early 1920's but not satisfied it's your chap.

Colin

The reason, Tony, that I didn't like what I had found was that while some of the detail matched, a lot didn't. I had searched incoming Passenger Lists from 1911-1922 and there was only one William Vines, with the occupation of a Joiner that had previously been in Canada and was therefore classified as a Returned Canadian.

Here is the information:
Date of arrival - 21 March 1021
Ship - "Melita"
Port of Arrival - St. John, New Brunswick
Name - William A Vines
Age - 36

Looking at the manifest, it states he was married, a Joiner by trade and was heading to Regina, Saskatchewan. His 1st arrival in Cnada was crossed out and had been written as 1903 [I think] but is abit messy and could be 1905. The "A" could be a typo error on the manifest, if with his accent, the purser thought he said Tony rather than Tommy and therefore typed an "A" for Anthony.

Grasping at straws possibly, but it is the only one I can find. What do you think?

Do you know if he served in the 1st World War?

Not much help, I'm afraid.

Colin

On 2nd thoughts and a closer look [enlarged] of the writing of the occupation, the chap immediately above in the manifest has his occupation written in a larger format. Comparing both, I think the occupation could be 'farmer'

[tony vines]

Hi Colin

Thanks for keeping on looking.

Our man returned to England, married Ellen Alice Pegg and they were recorded in the 1911 England census in Leicester. They had a daughter Ellen Margery Vines in 1912. The story goes (from his grandson who never met him) that he returned to Canada without his family but we don't know where to or on what date. The wife and daughter remained in the England. Current members of the family have no idea whether he stayed in Canada but wherever he went, he never returned to his family and there is no record of any further communication with him.

If he had sailed in 1921 he would have been 40 years old. In the 1911 census he had changed his occupation to insurance salesman so maybe neither joiner nor farmer was the right occupation for the manifest if this was the same man.

I do not know whether he served in the war either in English or Canadian service units.

regards