Illegitimacy and Marriage Certificates

[foxgrapes]

I have a marriage record between Joseph Graves born abt 1837 and Mary Ann Pain. His age is marked as 'full' on the record with no Father's name. An experienced researcher friend advises me that because there is no Father's name on the marriage record, Joseph is most likely illegitimate. Is this always the case, or is the father's name sometimes left off for any number of reasons?
Im fairly new at researching so I would like another opinion before I go off on a tangent trying to find his parents. Thanks

[Peter Goodey]

Illegitimacy is the likeliest reason but it could be because the groom didn't know his father's name (eg because he died during the child's infancy) or because he'd had a bust up with his father and wasn't putting that so-and-so's name on his marriage certificate.

But it doesn't really make any difference at this stage - there aren't many 'tangents' available . If there's no father's name on the marriage certificate, you only have one route to go down initially. If he was born in about 1837, this route will probably be parish registers. His birth details when you find them may well explain the marriage certificate.

[mfwebb]

On my great grandfather's marriage certificate in 1866 there is no father's name. But there is a father's name on his birth certificate in 1843. In many of the census returns his place of birth is N.K. (not known). His mother remarried in 1846 claiming to be a widow (I say claiming because I have not been able to locate a death certificate for her husband). His parents were married -- I have their marriage certificate in 1843.

Contrast this with my grandmother who married in 1910. Her father is named and deceased and his occupation is also given. He died when she was 18 months old so she could never have remembered him.

All the best,

Malcolm Webb
Lincoln UK

[Waitabit]

I have a relative who married in a different county,Wales- & listed on his marriage that his Father was Dead.
Dead to him perhaps due to a Family upset, but in fact still alive.
As Peter said so many reasons for discounting a Fathers name. Do you have a birth place for your man? Have you tried FreeBMD for any hints & censuses?

Such a marriage as you describe appears on FreeBMd Sep.1/4 1858 at Hartley Witney, Hampshire.
Is this the one?

[Guy Etchells]

There is no legal requirement to show ones father's name on a marriage certificate, it can simply be missed off.
Any guesses as to the reason are unless based on facts of the time are simply guesses.

It should also be noted that the father includes natural father (whether or not the couple were married) adoptive father, step-father (with qualification step-father added).
Cheers
Guy

[Hugh Thompson]

Hi Foxgrapes, where and when did he die and where was he buried, quite often there will be a mention of his father's name in the death certificate or the indexes.
Hugh.

[foxgrapes]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your suggestions. This is what I have. Joseph Graves born abt 1837/38. He names 3 different places of birth on 3 census. Odiham Hampshire, Liverpool Lancashire & Pontypool Wales. After his marriage to Mary Ann Pain in 1858 he lived in Hartley Wintney. According to the FreeBMD Index he died last quarter of 1893 Hartley Wintney Ref 2c 119.

I've searched Hampshire Records Online with no luck. The Lancashire records do have a Joseph Graves born 1837 to Joseph & Elizabeth at Cartmel Fell, but how do I know if this is my man?

[Hugh Thompson]

If it were me I'd apply for his death cert and see if there's any parents listed or possibly the place where he was born, that's if you know for sure that you have the correct death listed.
Hugh.

[Pam Downes]

If it were me I'd apply for his death cert and see if there's any parents listed or possibly the place where he was born, that's if you know for sure that you have the correct death listed.
Hugh.

English death certificates don't have such details listed on them.

For what details are given on English (and Welsh) BMD certificates see https://www.
dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm

Always bear in mind that on any death certificate, wherever it may be issued, the details are only as good as the informant's knowledge of the deceased person.

Pam

[Waitabit]

There are people on Genes Reunited who have both of these names on their trees from Odiham. Perhaps one is you, might be worth a look?