No Father on Marriage Certificate

[AudreyF]

I've just received a marriage certificate (1847) for James Martin and Mary Mounce - both of full age, bachelor and spinster. James was a Labourer with a home address of Monkleigh and Mary was a Glover - home address of Langtree, Devon - where they married. Everything is more or less as I expected but I actually ordered the certificate to pin down father's names and whilst Mary gives her father as Richard Mounce, a Labourer, the space for James' father's name and occupation is blank. Does this mean he didn't know who his father was or could there be alternative reasons - estranged, for example?

I've seen blanks for 'father's name' on birth certificates but never on a marriage.

Audrey

[Jan1954]

Hello Audrey,

The father's name on a marriage certificate can be missing for a number of reasons, although the most common one is that there wasn't one known. The minister recorded whatever he was told - no proof was needed - which is why you sometimes find that the details are completely fabricated, so as to "save face" or that occupations have been embellished.

Yes, there could be estrangement, but I would surmise that the father was unknown. See if you can find James' baptism to see what has been recorded there.

[AudreyF]

Hmmm. I haven't had much luck finding his baptism and was hoping to use the marriage certificate to pinpoint him in the 1841 census as there are so many James Martins in Devon. The one I have, and think is right, has Frithelstock (!) as his place of birth - none mention Monkleigh.

Audrey

[Jan1954]

The one I have, and think is right, has Frithelstock (!) as his place of birth - none mention Monkleigh.

Monkleigh would be where he was living, rather than where he was born. However, Monkleigh and Frithelstock are just 2 miles apart.

I leave that thought with you...

[AudreyF]

I take your point above.

There is a tree on Ancestry with James' parents shown as Robert Martin and Margaret Lemon - perhaps I should ask where that information comes from? Will it cause offence to question the source?

Audrey

[Jan1954]

Will it cause offence to question the source?

You need to see the source for your own records rather than just taking it for granted that it is correct, so I would say "ask away"!

[AudreyF]

Yes, you're right - I don't want to be led astray! It will be interesting to know the sources because the tree has quite a lot of information with no source mentioned.

Audrey

[olliecat]

There is a tree on Ancestry with James' parents shown as Robert Martin and Margaret Lemon - perhaps I should ask where that information comes from? Will it cause offence to question the source?

I agree with Jan and would ask the tree owner if they would kindly provide a source.

Thought I should mention that the Frithelstock baptism register for the years 1563-1823 has been transcribed here.

Perhaps that is where the tree owner found parents Robert and Margaret as there is a baptism entry for a James MARTIN on Sep 29 1822 with parents of those names. There are other James Martin baptism in the early 1820's. Personally, just to cover all bases, I would want to check a few years after 1823 since 1823/1824 is the approximate birth date recorded for James in the census. You could try contacting the transcriber, Betsey Rubel, to see if she has any information on baptisms after 1823, there is an email address on the page.

[Mutley]

To ask for the source is the correct thing to do. If someone takes offence I would have thought they were not comfortable with their information.

However, if I have the right couple, living in Monkleigh in 1851 then Mary Martin, widowed mother, is living with them.
This does not fit with the Ancestry Tree giving Margaret Lemon as a mother. Gives you a good reason to question the source.

1851 census
HO107/1895 Folio 358 Page 9
(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

[olliecat]

However, if I have the right couple, living in Monkleigh in 1851 then Mary Martin, widowed mother, is living with them....

HO107/1895 Folio 358 Page 9

That's useful, having mum staying.

Erm, but Mutley! Where did mother Mary come from? Her name looks like Margaret to me.