Two query's for you

[mok1]

I have the cenus for 1891 of my granmother and she was 6yrs old and she was living with her mother's parents and father Thomas Birtwhistle, and mother not there, then in 1911 she was with her mother sarah ann birtwhistle when she was 22yrs old, and found her father died in 1904, and in 1901 she was living with both her parents thomas and sarah. Now this is what i want to know, when Elsie's mother Sarah Ann Birtwhistle was not with her daughter and husband in 1891 (cenus) i found a passanger list, Indiana no 100080 from Philadelphia to Liverpool, when she arrived on 21st May 1891, would you say i have this right and this is her, have you any idea why she would be in Philadelphia? and be on her own, i am bewielded Also another question for you brill people out there, i have just got my granmother's death certificate Elsie Boden (formeley Birtwhistle) died in 1920 in Atcham in Shropshire, this is where my ancestors lived, well in Madeley, but she came from Lancaster, her husband Joseph my granfather came from Madeley, in 1861 the address was given as 11, Hill's Lane, Madeley, on her death certificate it states 15, Hill's lane, madeley, this is where my great, great, granfather was, what i cant get my head around is why would she go to shropshire when they had been living in Chorlton, Lancaster all her life!! any ideas would be internally grateful, thank you Mo.

[olliecat]

I take it that this the same Elsie Boden as mentioned in your previous thread here and you purchased that 1920 death certificate.

Edit: You are asking two different questions. One relating to Sarah Birtwhistle. The other relating to her daughter Elsie Boden (formeley Birtwhistle.) I would recommend that the first question about Sarah is tackled on this thread. However, I feel the second question relating to Elsie should be tackled on your other thread. Please could you post the death certificate details for Elsie on your other thread.

[olliecat]

I have now copied the death certificate details you have posted here to your other thread. Click the link mok1 and you will see it at the end of the thread. Also, your other thread will come up in Today's Posts just like this thread.

Now we can concentrate on Sarah in this thread.

For anyone wishing to help with this, here are the census references for the Birtwhistle family.

1881: Piece: 3901; Folio: 91; Page: 42

1891: piece 3172 folio 53 page 12

1901: piece 3689 folio 118 page 8

1911: RG14/23794 SN89

[Mona]

Perhaps she went out to visit relatives with a view to emigration? Her father was born in Poland so perhaps he had family there.

On 20 Oct 1922 the now widowed Sarah Ann BIRTWISTLE travels to New York to be with her son Herbert who lives in Newark. The information can be viewed for free on ellisisland.org.

[olliecat]

Well, I tried looking for Sarah in the census - in case she was away from home rather than abroad - but one problem is there are 3 different birthplaces for her in the census, Manchester, Sheffield (Yorkshire) and Sutton (Nottinghamshire.)

As an aside, in the 1881 census, Sarah is with father Myers and mother Elizabeth. Just so we can all see...

1881: RG11 Piece 3901 Folio 91 Page 42
69 Elizabeth St, Gorton, Lancashire
REUBEN Myer, head, 39, machine man, Poland
REUBEN Elizabeth, wife, 45, Retford Nottinghamshire
BIRTWISTLE Thomas, son-in-law, 25, locomotive fitter, Gorton Lancs
BIRTWISTLE Sarah A., dau, 21, Sheffield Yorkshire
BIRTWISTLE Elizabeth 1, grand dau, Gorton Lancs


The question is, where are Myers, Elizabeth and daughter Sarah in the previous 1871 and 1861 census? I can't see Myers, so could Elizabeth have been married previously? Do you have daughter Elsie's birth certificate because I suspect Sarah's maiden name is NOT REUBEN and Myers may not be her father?

Checking the indexes for a marriage between a Thomas BIRTWISTLE and a Sarah Ann, this one looks promising as it occured in West Gorton...

Marriage 1879
BIRTWISTLE Thomas
MATTHEWS Sarah A
St. Mark, West Gorton, Manchester

www.
lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi

There is a Sarah A MATTHEWS in the census with a mother Elizabeth. This Sarah was born abt. 1860 in Sheffield and mother Elizabeth was born abt. 1828 in Sutton, Nottinghamshire. Mind you, Elizabeth's birth date is not a very good match with the Elizabeth in the 1881 census. Further investigation is needed. (RG9; Piece: 3494; Folio: 93; Page: 4)

[olliecat]

The question is, where are Myers, Elizabeth and daughter Sarah in the previous 1871 and 1861 census?

Having asked this question - I possibly see Myers and Elizabeth in the 1871 census, but Sarah is not with them and Myers is recorded as Miles.

1871: RG10; Piece: 3975; Folio: 33; Page: 14
Ardwick, Lancashire
RHUBIN Miles, lodger, mar, 36, labourer, Warsaw Poland
RHUBIN Elizabeth, lodger, mar, 42, seamstress, Sutton, Nottinghamshire
Note: lodging with a WILSON family

[Mona]

Marriage 1879
BIRTWISTLE Thomas
MATTHEWS Sarah A
St. Mark, West Gorton, Manchester

The marriage can be found here. Father George ties in with the family olliecat found in 1861 census.

[DorothySandra]

A Census is only one night. She may have been just visiting her husband's family, rather than actually living there. Some of my best "finds" have been ancestors paying visits to relations.

[mok1]

Thank you for your help, i will check out all the information you have provided. internally grateful Mo

[mok1]

Thankyou olliecat for your time and information, internally grateful. mo