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  1. #31
    wendyar
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    Thomasin: No need to confuse me more than I already am! Coromandel mentions both churches in her prolific and knowledgeable replies. The Waterloo Road, Lambeth, church is where my gr, grandmother Cordelia Pople was baptised, while the one at Westminster was where her sister, Esther Selina was baptised in 1815. I am currently looking at the southwest elevation of St John's the Evangelist in the survey of London, complete with six grand cloumns and central spire.

    I do appreciate the follow up. I feel you are all watching out for me. Thanks. wendyar

  2. #32
    Thomasin
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    Whoops! Sorry, I didn't realise she'd mentioned both. I think your ancestors were aiming to confuse us all.

  3. #33
    Coromandel
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    Hello again wendyar

    Sorry for the delay in replying: I've been away for the weekend. I don't know London very well but am such a genealogy/history addict I am always up for a challenge!

    I see from the Old Bailey website that a pub called the 'Hoop and Grapes' and one or more Poples are mentioned in three cases. I found these by putting in grapes pople in the Keyword(s) box at oldbaileyonline.org/forms/formMain.jsp (put www. in front), keeping the default setting of 'And' for the radio buttons beneath the keyword box and then pressing 'Search'.

    The first result refers to the 'Hoop and Grapes' being in Queen Square. That was where the police office was too, so would have been right on George Pople's doorstep.

    To get a more exact location I just tried googling "hoop and grapes" "queen square". This found an entry on the 'Dead Pubs' website which says that the pub was 'on the north side of Broadway at the corner with Queen's Square' (specifically, at 14 Broadway, St Margaret, Westminster):

    https://www.
    deadpubs.co.uk/LondonPubs/WestminsterStMargaret/HoopGrapes.shtml

    You can see where Queen Square is/was from the Greenwood Map (1827). 'Broad Way' is near the bottom of this section of the map:

    https://
    users.bathspa.ac.uk/greenwood/map_e4u.html

    and at the northern end it seems to open out into a roughly triangular area (with York Street running off the west and Tothill Street to the east). Follow upwards in the left-hand corner of that triangle to see one side of Queens Square. I'll see if I can find a later map that marks the position of the pub. Back in a while!

  4. #34
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coromandel View Post
    I'll see if I can find a later map that marks the position of the pub.
    Put in the coordinates 529644, 179537 into the Old Maps website (old-maps.co.uk with www. at the front). When the modern map has loaded, switch to one of the older maps from the right-hand menu. The 1871-1873 plan is very detailed (1:1056) and marks a pub on the corner of Queen Square and the triangular bit of Broadway, and with another pub next door.

    Strangely Queen 'Square' only seems to have two sides!

  5. #35
    wendyar
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    Thanks again, Coromandel,

    I've located all that info and things are certainly coming together now. Printed the Greenwood's map, the relevant Old Bailey reports and found the corner with the Hoop and Grapes on the Old Maps repository. Still to revise the newspaper articles you posted but will do, as soon as time permits.

    That cookie box still keeps popping up at me!! When I look at other folk's descriptions of it, I think it must appear down under, in a different form. No flashing triangles at all! Just black with red print --- I've just spotted a much more subtle version on Google search.

    Cheers, Wendyar

  6. #36
    wendyar
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    This is just to express my gratitude and to thank all who participated in this forum. As a result of your contributions, my "Chelsea Pople" has located many new documents and forwarded the info to me and I have exchanged the new results with him. The sections of the tree that I have were previously unknown to him so your results have linked both our Pople trees into one large family, covering two generations. Thank you all for your time and patience. It has been a very rewarding experience. Wendyar.

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