Poples of Lambeth, Surrey

[olliecat]

They both died in Wallaroo in SA. I have no dates for David but Christian died 29 May, 1877. I spent all day at PC searching for relevant newspaper notices and SA Death Indexes without success. I don't suppose you know if early SA death indexes are online anywhere??

SA BDM indexes are online here...

www.
genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html

Christina's death is shown as...

1877 81/415 MORGAN Christina David MORGAN (H) Daly

Perhaps this is her husband as it is in the same district...

1887 160/296 MORGAN David Daly

[olliecat]

I haven't yet found George Pople in Lambeth in any directories but there is a George Pople in Pigot's 1839 directory of London as at the 'Roebuck', 109 Tottenham Court Road.

It appears that George POPLE of the Roebuck, Totenham Court Road, Licenced Vixctualler, was having money troubles....

See this Gazette article of 7 April 1843 here.

There is also a brief mention in this Gazette article of 28 February 1851 here. It seems George once traded with his partner James Forrrester under the name of Forrester and Pople.

[olliecat]

I have a confusion of two generations of Poples whose baptisms and births range from 1781 in Hanover Square to Horace Pople 1835, probably born at Lambeth Marsh.

I am confused as to how you have connected your POPLES of Lambeth, i.e. George the vitualler with the POPLES of Othery Somerset.

I can see a possible marriage for George POPLES to Easther HABERFIELD on 2 Nov 1813 at St George Hanover Square. There is also a potential baptism for Esther (Hester HABERFIELD) in 1794 that ties in with her birth place of Westminster in the 1851 census.

George is not with Esther in the 1841 or 1851 census. Have you found him in the census? Was he born in Othery?

[Coromandel]

I must have missed this one earlier (from Ancestry):

Esther Selina, dau. of George & Esther Pople, Grey Coat Street, Police Officer, bapt. 27 August 1815, St John the Evangelist, Westminster.

So it looks a George Pople, police officer, who appears in various newspaper reports and on the Old Bailey site, may well indeed be this George. Here are some of the references from newspapers. The first is just my attempt to summarise a long article:

The Morning Chronicle, 22 July 1818
George Pople and Alfred Pople, described as 'officers of Queen-square', were sent to apprehend John Bond, a prisoner who had escaped while being taken from Tothill Fields Prison 'in a hackney-coach to Marlborough-street Police-office'. Bond was in the custody of the underkeeper of that prison, one Mr Pople. Apparently the coach had to turn around in Swallow Street, Oxford Street, because the street was being paved, and when Mr Pople stuck his head out of the window to ask what was happening, his prisoner took the opportunity to escape.
George & Alfred arrested John Bond in the Horse & Groom at Datchett, but it was late so they confined him in a back room on the second floor and (taking the precaution of confiscating Bond's clothes) themselves slept in an adjoining room. Bond escaped yet again, jumping out of the second-storey window ('a height of near twenty feet') and running off wearing only a shirt; the officers (who 'fortunately slept in their clothes') chased after him for 'three miles, over hedge, ditch and fields'. They threatened to shoot him, then tried shooting and missed, and finally shot him in the knee to stop him.

From a report in the Morning Chronicle, 6 November 1823, George Pople was one of three police officers involved in capturing burglars who had stolen £1000 from the Westminster Gas Company in Horseferry Road.

There are various other mentions of him as a police officer, for example in the Caledonian Mercury of 11 May 1826; he was described as an officer of the 'Queen Square Police Office' when he arrested one Richard walker who was 'parading in front of the Foreign Office' and (from circumstances explained in the article) suspected of intending to attack the Right Hon. George Canning [then the Foreign Secretary if the dates on Wikipedia are correct].

The last mention of him as a policeman, as far as I can see in the 19th c. British Library Newspapers collection, is in 1827. Perhaps his job ceased to exist when the Metropolitan Police was created soon after this?

The next mention of a George Pople in this newspaper collection is of a cab driver, who admitted drink driving in 1836. When I was at the library earlier I came across a George Pople, born in Othery, who was a cab driver on the 1851 census. Unfortunately I got waylaid and failed to note down any details before my time ran out. I was using Findmypast in case that helps find him again. If it is the same George he has a new, younger wife!

Going back to the Poples and their connection with Tothill Fields Prison, I came across this on Google Books:

The Examiner, 10 January 1825
'A Desperate Attempt. - Some time since, Alfred Pople, of Queen-square-office, and turnkey of Tothill fields prison, with Gillmore and Handley, also officers, received an anonymous intimation that their lives were in danger. It was well known by the leaders of the desperate gangs who cruise in Westminster, that Mr. Pople, sen. resided near the prison, and it was supposed that Alfred Pople also resided with him. About eight o'clock on Wedneday evening, no less than four bullets were fired at one moment into the parlour, through the shutters and the door, the panel of the latter of which is completely shattered. Fortunately, the villains missed their object, as Alfred was from home, and his mother had left the room. The cause of this murderous attack is more than guessed at, and we entertain strong hopes that the wretches will not escape justice.'

From the 1818 newspaper account mentioned above, both George and Alfred were officers at the same time and a Mr Pople was under-keeper (was he the father of George and Alfred? or perhaps an older brother?). Perhaps there will be some answers in the Westminster parish records, some of which are on Findmypast but some I think not yet online.

P.S., sorry wendyar, I have got a bit side-tracked from your original question. These Poples sound quite fascinating. Other people's ancestors always seem more interesting than mine!

[olliecat]

SA BDM indexes are online here...

www.
genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html

Christina's death is shown as...

1877 81/415 MORGAN Christina David MORGAN (H) Daly

Perhaps this is her husband as it is in the same district...

1887 160/296 MORGAN David Daly

Hmm! David's age was 53 years according to the cemetery record at www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=764, which was not very close to Christians age. He certainly could not be the David who married Christina in 1833. Unless his age has been mis-transcribed.

[Coromandel]

From the 1818 newspaper account mentioned above, both George and Alfred were officers at the same time and a Mr Pople was under-keeper (was he the father of George and Alfred? or perhaps an older brother?).

Access to Archives (A2A) provides a likely name for Mr Pople senior:

'Petition of John Pople, late Turnkey of Tothill Fields Bridewell, aged 73, that his weekly allowance be returned to the value of £1, as originally granted, having recently been reduced to 15s.'

London Metropolitan Archives, ref. WJ/SP/1827/OCT/020/1-2 (the document itself apparently is undated, but is among papers for the October 1827 Quarter Sessions).

[judyg]

Hmm! David's age was 53 years according to the cemetery record at www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=764, which was not very close to Christians age. He certainly could not be the David who married Christina in 1833. Unless his age has been mis-transcribed.

According to the death indexes this David's age was 34. In the South Australian Register under "Returns of persons who have died in the undermentioned hospitals during the half year ending 30th June 1887 whose relatives are unknown or reside beyond the limits of the colony" For the Wallaroo Hospital is the entry for David Morgan who died January 13th aged 34 of Phithisis.

Cheers

Judyg

[Waitabit]

https://www.familyhistorysa.info/ship...ngerlists.html


Search results (total of 2)

MORGAN David (1st arr 1837 Lady Emma), Christian/Christina MOFFATT / MOFFETT POPLE, Priscilla, Selina, Amelia, dau (1st husb) arrived in SA 1840-06-10 aboard Orleana from London 02-29 [Source:2,4,6(Obs 1892),

MORGAN David arrived in SA 1837-12-04 aboard Lady Emma from London [Source:1,6(Obs 1892),10,23(10)]

From the familyhistory website.

[judyg]

After being rudely interrupted by a power failure that has lasted several hours (the joys of living in the Adelaide Hills!!) I will finish my post.

From the South Australian Register 6 June 1877:

DEATHS. MORGAN.— On the 29th May, at H.M. Gaol, Wallaroo, Christian Morgan, after a long and painful illness, aged 77; an old colonist of 40 years.

The Death index has David still alive at the time of her death.

[judyg]

David Morgan died 16 July 1896 aged 86 in North Adelaide. There is a wonderfully detailed obituary for him in the South Australian Register 17th July 1896 on Trove

Cheers
Judyg