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  1. #1
    ttnut
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    Default JENKINS from PA to Merthyr Tydfil area

    Hi fellow researchers

    Having found out quite a lot about my relatives I still know very little about Elizabeth Jenkins who was born in Pennsylvannia in Pittsburg or possibly Philadelphia. Family lore has it that Elizabeth who was born c 1872/1875 travelled with her parents and siblings and was old enough at the time to remember the ship they were on foundering off the coast of Wales - with no lives lost thankfully. I have no idea of the year, name of the ship, whether it was a ship from America or a tramp ship possibly bringing the family on the last leg from Liverpool. Family lore also has it that a brother (possibly named John) was born on board ship during the trip here. It is possible that Elizabeth's grandparents emigrated to America from Ireland All I know for sure is that Elizabeth married Thomas Child/s and appears on the 1901 and 1911 census living in Merthyr Tydfil. The oldest daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth was called Evangeline Eliza Mary Childs who I can find no trace of after 1911.

    If anyone can help me trace the elusive American side of my family I would be eternally grateful.

    Ever hopeful
    ttnut

    Elizabeth Jenkins (Childs) died in London in 1958 and unfortunately there is no-one alive who can answer all the above questions.

  2. #2
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Hi ttnut

    I take it you don't know the names of Elizabeth's parents, or you would have mentioned them. If you obtain a copy of Elizabeth's marriage certificate, this should give the name of her father. Is this her marriage?

    Marriages Sep 1896 Pontypridd 11A 827
    CHILDS, James Thomas
    JENKINS, Elizabeth
    THOMAS, Jane
    JONES, John

  3. #3
    ttnut
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    Hi Olliecat

    Thank you for your very prompt reply. I do have the certificate you mention which is interesting as Thomas was definitely not James Thomas, however I have compared the signature of James Thomas on the certificate with Thomas' signature on the 1911 census when he was living in Merthyr Tydfil and to my inexpert eye the Surname does appear very similarly written. The conclusion I reached was that this may indeed be the wedding certificate of my Elizabeth, who was obviously pregnant when she married (if this is her marriage) and as Thomas was a couple of months off 21 (which I believe was the age he could have married without parental consent), it might explain why he used a slightly different name (I have his birth cert as Thomas), and married down the road at Pontypridd instead of at Merthyr Tydfil? The marriage certificate shows Elizabeth's father's name as David Jenkins, but annoyingly Thomas' father's name is left blank which would have made the info more certainly relating to my relatives!!!! Unfortunately even allowing for the chance that David Jenkins is Elizabeth's father I can't pinpoint any travel/immigration records that confirm the Jenkins family journey any time between 1875 and 1896.

    Thank you for helping, it's always good to get another independent opinion when facing a brickwall. If you can think of any other avenues I might pursue that I may have overlooked that would be great.

    Best wishes
    ttnut

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttnut View Post
    I do have the certificate you mention which is interesting as Thomas was definitely not James Thomas, however ...

    (I have his birth cert as Thomas), and married down the road at Pontypridd instead of at Merthyr Tydfil? The marriage certificate shows Elizabeth's father's name as David Jenkins, but annoyingly Thomas' father's name is left blank
    The first name James has been bugging me. With no father named for Thomas on his marriage certificate, how did you track down the correct birth certificate for him?

    I noticed that Thomas and Elizabeth's daughter Evangeline was staying with her aunt Mary Ann GUNTER in the 1901 census (p.5044 f.31 p.53). Also, in the marriage index for 1878, a Mary Ann CHILD is listed on the same page as a Charles GUNTER. Did you trace Thomas' parents through Mary Ann? There is a Thomas CHILD with parents John and Martha in the census but Mary Ann doesn't seem to fit.

    I know I am deviating from Elizabeth Jenkins but please indulge me for this one post, then I'll have another hunt for the elusive parents of Elizabeth.

  5. #5
    ttnut
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    Thomas' birth certificate was hard to find as it was in 'Tenby out Liberty' not where I expected it - Narberth. The birth certificate does confirm John and Martha (nee Evans) as the correct parents which I had properly traced backward via census etc. My belief is that Thomas used the name James Thomas on his wedding certificate as he was underage to marry without parental consent and wanted the name on the certificate to be of someone age 21 or over if it was checked!! I also believe that elsewhere in the family (known to Thomas) that a young child/baby of that name died, but would have been 21 at the time of Thomas' marriage as I checked all James Thomas Childs births thinking that he was JT but known as T if you see what I mean. Hence leaving off his father's name on the certificate. Crikey I'm making it sound more complicated!

    Anyway thank you so much for your help, for some reason I had been unable to discover Evangeline's whereabouts in 1901, and until the 1911 census thought she may have died in the meantime, now you have already answered one query for me. I have been unable to find any marriage or death for her. I wonder whether she became Eva or similar as her name was a bit of a mouthful, one that I thought would be easy to trace!!! Obviously Elizabeth Jenkins and her forebears are my main brickwalls at the moment, but anything you may be able to turn up would be brilliant. Thanks again, ttnut.

  6. #6
    ttnut
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    Hi Olliecat
    I've been looking at the 1901 census showing Evangeline Childs, thank you so much for that. It has inevitably thrown up new queries for me. I'm not sure who Mary Ann Gunter/Child is. Possibly she is a great aunt to Evangeline as I know that Thomas had a GG uncle who lived in the Maesteg area for a while before settling in Bristol and it's quite possible that some family members stayed in the Maesteg area.

    .

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttnut View Post
    I've been looking at the 1901 census showing Evangeline Childs, thank you so much for that. It has inevitably thrown up new queries for me. I'm not sure who Mary Ann Gunter/Child is. Possibly she is a great aunt to Evangeline
    I haven't figure Mary Ann out yet either! She too has been niggling me all morning as I couldn't fit her into the census as a sister to Thomas. Interestingly, she does give the exact same birth place as Thomas of Stepaside and it did cross my mind that she could be a great aunt. However, I stopped pursuing her this afternoon (but will look again) as this thread is supposed to be about Elizabeth JENKINS. NOT that I've found anything else on Elizabeth yet - at all.

    You said that Elizabeth may have had a brother who was born on the ship they travelled on from the US to the UK. Well, there was a birth registration in the Marine Birth Index for a child of David Edward JENKINS and Florence Jane ARMSTRONG in 1896, on the ship Ophir. However, I suspect the ship was travelling the wrong way - out of Britain and to Australia. So this is very probably a false lead.

    Sorry! I'm not doing very well for you so far on the matter of Elizabeth's parents.

  8. #8
    ttnut
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    Hi Olliecat

    Thank you so much for your interest. Elizabeth's marriage to Thomas, presumably the Pontypridd marriage of 1896, and Evangeline's birth in a few months later in Merthyr Tydfil 1897, suggests to me that Elizabeth must have arrived in Wales pre 1895? I don't believe Thomas ever left Wales, so Elizabeth would have had to have met him in Wales. I believe that Elizabeth was a child, possibly as young as 3 or 4, but more likely around 10 when she travelled as she apparently remembered the ship foundering and the birth of a brother. It is all a bit vague I'm afraid as unfortunately Elizabeth died over 50 years ago and there is no one left who may have known more. If you do manage to help get me on track I will be overjoyed as I've spent a very long time looking for leads to no avail.

    Incidentally I have no idea why Thomas put Stepaside as his place of birth on the 1911 census as his definitely correct birth certificate (parents John and Martha - nee Evans) states that he was born at Broadfield Hill, Out Tenby which is just outside Saundersfoot on the road to Tenby, the opposite direction to Stepaside I think. Thomas is on the 1881 census with John, Martha, brother Robert and sister Margaret listed as Child rather than Childs, interestingly I never found him for sure on the 1891 census, but that's another query for another day!

    I hope I haven't caused too much of a headache.

    Best wishes
    ttnut

  9. #9
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    This may mean nothing at all but bith places were interesting.

    1880 Pennsylvania. Lackawanna,Spring Brook.
    David Matthews 38 b.Wales as were his Parents.
    Wife Elen 38 b. Wales as were her Parents.
    Gomer Jenkins 10 stepson B. Pennsylvania, Parents born Wales.
    Elizabeth A.Jenkins 6 b. Pennsylvania. Parents b. Wales.
    (Don't know if this means original Parents of Elen & David Matthews)
    Isaac Matthews son b. pennsylvania. Parents b Wales
    ................

    1880 Pennsylvania.Clearfield, Shillingford.
    Sarah Jenkins 13 servant b Penns'. Parents b.Wales
    Elizabeth Jenkins 11 servant b.Ireland, Pts b.Ireland
    Gomer 8 servant b.Ireland as were his pts.
    In thehouse of:
    Thomas Torley 65 b Wales as were his Pts.
    Isabela Torley 68 b.Penssylvania, pts b.Wales

    The only Elizabeth to come up on IGI bapts.
    Hester E. Jenkins
    Pennsylvania, Births and Christenings, 1709-1950
    birth: 08 Oct 1873 PHILADELPHIA,​ PHILADELPHIA,​ PENNSYLVANIA
    parents: Mathew Jenkins,​ Elizth.

    Saw her in one of the censuses but left it tho' she had I think a Sister Eliz.
    Happy Families
    Wendy
    Count your Blessings, they'll all add up in the end.

  10. #10
    ttnut
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    Hi Waitabit

    Thank you so much for taking the time to look at Elizabeth Jenkins for me. I believe I have seen these records on my previous many hours of trawling!!!! I did look very closely at the last one and eventually discovered that the Eliz mentioned, had travelled back to America (passenger lists), there were one or two other anomolies that were definitely not right, but as you say the names and timings appeared really interesting. I don't know for certain whether it is right, but have been told that it was Elizabeth's grandparents who emigrated to America from or via Ireland, which would make at least one of her parents born in America and Elizabeth of American birth in Pittsburg or less likely in Philadelphia. Another unsubstantiated story is that Elizabeth's father may have been working on the construction of railroads. I think Pittsburg had steel works which would have been involved in production of the tracks resumably. So the story goes, the Jenkins left America as it was increasingly dangerous due to constant attacks from Indians who if the story is true would have been trying to prevent the railroad being built!!!!!

    Of course all the above could be myth with an element of truth, so hard to prove without knowing Elizabeth's families' names, though a David Jenkins may have been her father.

    Best wishes
    ttnut

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