Joshua and/or James Warren

[biggirlsblouse]

Hello,

I am attempting to track down Joshua Featherstone Warren and his father James Warren. I know a little about Joshua and a bit about a lot of his family members, and know nothing at all about James!

What I know about Joshua...

Born around 1838 - where exactly is subject to debate!

According to his marriage certificate - born in Yorkshire
According to his death certificate - born 'at sea'
According to the birth certificates of two of his children (the oldest, also Joshua Featherstone and the youngest, Henry) - born in Hobart Town Tasmania

So I am slightly confused...

On Joshua's death certificate, it said he lived in Tasmania for nine years, then moved to Victoria where he lived for the remainder of his life.

There *is* a Joshua Warren listed as being born in Yorkshire in 1838, but there's also a death in the same quarter and same district. I've also not been able to find any trace of Joshua and James together on the 1841 or 1851 census records

On both his marriage and death certificates, Joshua's father is listed as "James Warren" and his occupation is listed as Farmer and Station Labourer.

So I am wondering if there's an on line index to Tasmanian historical records or if someone can possibly look up a birth fo a Joshua Featherstone Warren b 1838 with a father called James!

Regards,

Jodi

[warncoort]

Heaps of Tasmanian records,use google and the results of posts elsewhere

[ChristineR]

I think you need to find a locality in Yorkshire, before sending for a certificate. Ages are usually never exact in those days, and given the vagueness of his birthplace,I wouldn't put much trust in the result of 'born about 1838'. He only has to be six months older and he is in the pre civil registration period and you would be looking for a baptism instead. There is not an entry in the Tasmanian Pioneer index - but that is not unusual for the times, not all children are in the index.

You mention is the other thread
https://www.british-genealogy.com/for...971#post395971
that it is possible that the father's name on the marriage certificate might not be James, but even could be Jeremy - have you had anyone look at that for other opinions?

I think you can safely assume that the children's birth certificate information about his birthplace is correct, this info comes directly from the parties concerned. There was a certain stigma with coming from Tasmania, with the convict association to the island, so that is probably why he said that he was born in Yorkshire, and at sea.

Also, I couldn't see where you have mentioned Joseph's mother's name? he married in Victoria in 1865, so his mother's name should be recorded. That would be very helpful in finding siblings in the Tasmanian and/or Yorkshire records.

[biggirlsblouse]

Hi Christine,

Thank you for checking the Pioneer Index for me - Joshua's mother is listed as either 'not known' or 'unknown' on all the source documents I have. I have guestimated Joshua's age based on his age when he got married and on his death certificate - but as you said, the birth information is very sketchy so he could be born anywhere between 1835 and 1840. Also, the information on FreeReg is light on for Yorkshire as well.

He may not have wanted his wife's parents to know he was from Tasmania (they came out as migrants in the 1850s) if there was a stigma involved. There are definitely a couple of James Warrens who went to Tasmania as convicts, and there's also a Catherine Featherstone listed in the Female Factory (it occurred to me that he may have been born to a female convict and adopted/fostered as another option).

I have asked a couple of other people to look at the name on the marriage certificate, but aside from the J at the start and what looks like a Y on the end, it really is unclear. On his death certificate, it's very distinctly "James" though.

There was also a listing in the Tasmanian census for 1842 (I think - somewhere around there) for a James Warren, but the archive people told me they were in the midst of getting all that information on line, so I will have to wait and see if there's a "child Warren" tagging along with him.

It's been quite strange, though. I have barrelled along quite nicely with other branches of the family (and even found Joshua's wife's details without too much trouble) but these Warrens are proving elusive.

Jodi

[ChristineR]

So his marriage specifically says 'not known' or 'unknown'? That does place a whole different set of possible circumstances on his birth. I did notice lots of Featherstone entries in the Tasmanian BDM index, but if Featherstone was his mother's name he would have known that. Unless he lost both parents while he was young and had no true idea of his origins. At least he did not attempt to make up names then.

Are you able to post a part of the certificate here or on a place such as photobucket to get ideas about the name?
Who were the witnesses to the marriage? did they witness other marriages on the same page?

I only had a quick look in the Tasmania Pioneer index for your chap, looking by name, but I have looked again and there is a James WARREN getting married around that timeframe.

[ChristineR]

I should have added this to my previous post. From the Tasmanian Pioneer Index 1803-1899 A family to look into.

James WARREN and Mary Ann CARR
married 26 January 1835
Registration Place: SORELL
Registration Number: 3038/1835
Reference: RGD 36
[ages not given]

Mary Ann WARREN
baptism 17 Aug 1836
Given Names: MARY ANN
Parents: JAMES, MARY ANN
Registration Place: CLARENCE
Registration Number: 7486/1836
Reference: RGD 32

Now, looking at the online convicts permission to marry , James was a convict, he arrived on the ship 'Mary', but Mary Ann Carr was free. James arrived in 1830 - departed from London -there are digital records free online at the Tasmanian Archives website.
So, if your young fellow belongs to them, and he came to Victoria at 9 years old (presuming he was born in Tasmania) then these people should show up in Victoria. I will look.

[ChristineR]

There is a 50 year old James, born London, died in Victoria 1859, aged 50. Reg# 8512
father unknown. This death certifcate might give a list of children's names and ages.
I have to go to work, but will check later, try and find an age for the convict James.

[ChristineR]

I looked at the images available in a couple of records online (free)
This convict James was from Mitcham, Surry, which is at least near London, aged 22 on arrival in 1830.

Appropriation Lists - digital file
1044 Warren Jas, 22, Engraver, Groom, House Servant, tried Surry, sentence life, native place Mitcham, appropriated Police

Archives Office of Tasmania – digitised record
Item: CON18-1-15
Image #118 of 296
Description list of male convicts
Mary
Warren Jas., No 1044, Mitcham, Surry
Trade: Print Engraver
Height without shoes, 5/4/4
Age: 22
Complexion: fair
Head: round
Hair: red
Whiskers: red
Visage: round
Forehead: retreating
Eyebrows: bro
Eyes: grey
Nose: M L
Mouth M W
Chin: M L dimple in centre
Remarks : none

[ChristineR]

sorry about all the posts

his pardon, from Ancestry
Name: James Warren
Vessel: Mary
Piece: HO 10/58
Province: Tasmania
Title: Pardons
Year(s): 1843-1844
Place of Conviction: Surrey
Been in colony 14 years, holding ticket of leave for 6 years
Having become eligible by servitude in the Colony and with a Ticket of Leave, and also shown proofs of amended conduct.
I couldn't see an exact date for the pardon

[biggirlsblouse]

Hi Christine,

Here are the images of Joshua's marriage and death and the birth certificate for his eldest son...Hopefully I have won at photobucket!




It looks like the witnesses to Joshua and Mary's wedding were Mary's parents, and Mary's parents had to give permission for the wedding by the look of things.

Regards,

Jodi