What happens to non-Naturalized female ??????

[Colin Rowledge]

Well for one thing the Social Security Act did not come about until the 1930's. I'd have to research what the rules were back then. Do we have Elizabeth's DOB? Have we found her in the 1920 or 1930 census?

Don't have time right now, but will check back later to see what needs doing by then.

-Barb

From the passenger list she was aged 48. This was in 1913, so if correct, we are looking at 1865, There are 2 'possibles' - 1 in 4th q. 1865 and 1 in 1st q. 1866.

Neither she nor Richard appear on the 1920 census. Richard was back in England in 1921 with a 'new' wife and Elizabeth could have died or remarried by 1930.

Colin

[Colin Rowledge]

Just to be awkward, how certain are you that this is your Richard JOHNS?

For example, a Richard S JOHNS married Grace M WASLEY on 01 Mar 1905 in Marquette, Michigan. Checking the census, in 1900, Richard was lodging with his future wife's family in Marquette. See this image on Family Search here. Richard's occupation is Blacksmith.

Also, digging further back, both Richard and Grace appear to have been born in Cornwall. Grace abt. 1867 in Kenwyn and Richard abt. 1865 in Breage (Helston reg district.) Richard S JOHNS and Grace M are listed in the 1910, 1920 and 1930 census in Michigan, but it is feasible that they travelled to Cornwall in 1921 for some reason.

Can we take a breather on this topic and my other thread [posted on the Cornwall - Country wide forum], which a moderator may be able to link?

After dinner tonight or tomorrow, I'll come back .

Colin

[olliecat]

I have added a link to your other thread, but just to clarify - could you confirm that you are trying to ascertain if Elizabeth Ann EATHORNE who married Frederick William CURTIS in 1895 and Elizabeth A EATHORNE who married Richard H JOHNS in 1912 are one and the same (Richard and Elizabeth JOHNS subsequently emigrating to the USA in 1913)?

If so, having two threads on the same person will be confusing and one should be closed.

[Colin Rowledge]

I have added a link to your other thread, but just to clarify - could you confirm that you are trying to ascertain if Elizabeth Ann EATHORNE who married Frederick William CURTIS in 1895 and Elizabeth A EATHORNE who married Richard H JOHNS in 1912 are one and the same (Richard and Elizabeth JOHNS subsequently emigrating to the USA in 1913)?

Thank you, Olliecat.
My 2nd cousin and I are trying to dtermine is - which lady accompanied Richard to the U.S. in 1913?

May I p/m you?

Colin

[olliecat]

May I p/m you?

Of course you may.

[Colin Rowledge]

Of course you may.

Will do- mayybe you can figure out out the next step

[Colin Rowledge]

Well the certifiates arrived --- but somehow something is lacking and it is possibly me in the interpretation.

What I do know for a fact, is that my Richard H. Johns was single as of the 1911 census. He was living at the residence in Pedna Vounder, Sithney, Cornwall. He is aged 49, single and worked as a Labourer on a Farm. Living at the same residence is Mary Jane Bray - nee Brooks [the mother of Susan Jane Bray and Grandmother of Joseph Henry Bray], Laura Williams - nee Bray [daughter of Mary Jane and in the process of leaving her husband - Samuel John - who she married in 1906] and Joseph Henry Bray [the son of Susan Jane Bray]
The 2nd known fact is that after Mary Jane died in 1912, a ship was bound for Boston, MA. and arrived on March 28, 1913. On board was a Richard Johns [stated age 48 and occupation as a Tin Miner] and was accompanied by his 48 year old wife Elizabeth. His intended residence was Sherborne, MA. and they planned to reside with the family of Harry Bray [the brother of Susan Jane] and Richard indicated that Harry was his nephew. The manifest also indicates that he had preiously been in the U.S. in 1912.

Based upon the above, I went looking for a marriage in Cornwall between July 1912 [when Mary Jane died] and his departure in March 1913. Only one was found t5hat looked promising and has now been received. It states as follows: Richard Henry Johns and Elizabeth Annie Eathorne were married after Banns and in the presence of Percy Johns and James Eathorne on December 21, 1912. The stated residence prior to marriage was Illogan Highway, Illogan, Cornwall. He was a Miner. He was aged 23 and she was aged 22. This therefore to me doesn't match the passenger manifest.

The 3rd known fact is that on June 1, 1921 a ship arrived in Liverpool that had departed from Quebec, Canada in May. On board was a Richard Johns [aged 56 and a Blacksmith] and his wife Grace M. Johns [aged 54]. They gave as their potential address in Cornwall as S.P.O. Helston.
This looked promising as Harry Bray in 1918 worked as a Moulder in an Iron Foundry and had probably helped Richard find a job in the same place.

So i started looking for a death of a Richard Johns in Cornwall after 1921. I based my search on a person born about 1861. That certificate has now arrived. Itstates as follows: On April 5, 1924, Richard Henry Johns aged 63 and a General Labourer died at 15 Centenary Row West, Camborne. In attendance at death was L. Dunn, described as Brother-in-law, with whom Richard was living.

What do the folks here think?

Colin

[lesleys]

That looks good for Richard's death.

I think the Richard travelling with grace is a red herring - in the 1910 US census ( at Family Search) a Richard S Johns and his wife Grace M are living in Marquette Michigan with mother in law MAry Wasley. They are also there in 1920 & 1930 so presumably just came back for a visit.

I haven't found a Dunn - Johns marriage yet to account for the brother-in-law perhaps if you could find him in an earlier census it might help.

[Coromandel]

Based upon the above, I went looking for a marriage in Cornwall between July 1912 [when Mary Jane died] and his departure in March 1913. Only one was found t5hat looked promising and has now been received. It states as follows: Richard Henry Johns and Elizabeth Annie Eathorne were married after Banns and in the presence of Percy Johns and James Eathorne on December 21, 1912. The stated residence prior to marriage was Illogan Highway, Illogan, Cornwall. He was a Miner. He was aged 23 and she was aged 22. This therefore to me doesn't match the passenger manifest.

Hi Colin, hope you are having a good day

The simplest explanation is that this is a different couple so I looked to see if there was a younger Richard who might match this description. I wonder if the one marrying in 1912 might be the 20 year old Richard Johns (miner, tin) born Redruth who was at Bassett Terrace, Illogan Highway in 1911 with mother Sarah Maud Johns (42; she initially said she was married and gave her relationship to the head of household as 'wife', but this has been altered to 'Head'). Sarah said she'd been married 25 years and had had six children, four still alive. (This info on the length of marriage and no. of children has also been crossed out.) Besides Richard there are two other sons with Sarah at the time of the census, namely Percy (24) (is he the one who witnessed the wedding?) and S. Stanley (17) (RG 14/13994, ED10, SN21).

John Johns (tin miner) and Sarah are with sons Percy (14), Sydney (13), Richard (10) and Stanley (7) at 26 Falmouth Road, Redruth, in 1901 (RG 13/2239, f.9, p.10).

Richard's age of 10 in 1901 and 20 in 1911 would be a bit out compared with his age at marriage but not so much as to rule him out. What does the marriage certificate say about the name and occupation of his father and does that match with the one found on the census?

There's another bit of evidence that might suggest that the Richard & Elizabeth who married in 1912 aren't the ones who were leaving the country in 1913. If you search FreeBMD for births of JOHNS children with mother's maiden name EATHORNE you get one registered in the first quarter of 1916. I haven't checked to see if there is another Johns/Eathorne combo who could account for this birth registration. Why no more children? (Might be worth checking the Commonwealth War Graves site in case this Richard died in the war.)

Nothing conclusive but I hope this gives you some new ideas for research avenues.

[Coromandel]

. . . a ship was bound for Boston, MA. and arrived on March 28, 1913. On board was a Richard Johns [stated age 48 and occupation as a Tin Miner] and was accompanied by his 48 year old wife Elizabeth.

The Boston passenger list on Ancestry has names and addresses of the 'nearest relative or friend in country whence alien came'. For Richard this is shown as 'Father Mr Johns, Wheat For, Breege, Cornwall' and for Elizabeth 'Father Mr W. Thomas, 14 Wendron Street, Helston'.

So perhaps they are the Richard Johns and Elizabeth C. Thomas who married in the Helston district in the first quarter of 1913?

From the passenger list it seems that Richard's father was still alive when Richard emigrated. One candidate is the 76 year old Nicholas Johns at Wheal Vor, Breage, in 1911 (RG 14/13947, ED2, SN51). I didn't have time to check other censuses in detail but did see that on the 1871 census there is an 8 year old Richard Johns, scholar, born Breage, with 37 year old father Nicholas Johns, tin miner, at Penhale Downs, Breage (RG 10/2307, f.48, p.8).