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    Knowledgeable and helpful RonOne's Avatar
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    IF Mary Green was born in Dec 1901 and IF Mary was born in the same area as William Bishop, then her birth should have been registered in either the Dec quarter 1901 or the Mar quarter 1902. There is only one probable birth registration for a Mary Green in the Prescot registration disrict which is:

    Births Dec 1901
    GREEN Mary - Prescot 8b 778
    (Lancashire BMD have the sub-district as St Helens)

    Note that there are plenty of Mary Green births registered in other areas.

    Assuming you have the marriage certificate for William Bishop & Mary Green. It might help if you post more details for Mary Green. Is there an occupation given for her father George? Who were the witnesses?

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    Thankyou Ron, Yes I do have the marriage cert for william and mary. They married on 22nd may 1920 he was 21 she was 18 she lived at 58 dudley street St. Helens and father George was deceased and occupation Coal Miner. Witnesses to the marriage were J. Hanley and E Greenall. Place was Holy Cross Church St. Helens. Mry Green died in Nov 1940 and is buried in St. Helens Cemetery. Also can uyou tell me the best and cheapest way to obtain certificates. Thanks again Val

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Based on the Dudley Street address on Mary's marriage certificate it would seem that her parents were George and Elizabeth Green.
    1911 census the family are living at 60 Dudley Street, and in 1901 at 68 Dudley Street.
    Census ref RG14 PN22804 SN243 in 1911.
    RG13/3525 folio 21 page 33 in 1901
    RG12/3024 folio 20 page 34 in 1891.

    George's occupation is always connected with coal.

    The 1911 census says that George and Elizabeth have been married 25 years. Based on the fact that in 1901 they're boarding with a Sarah Sandford, I would think that George Green married Elizabeth Sandford, September quarter 1885, Prescot registration district.
    Unfortunately they would appear to have married either at the Register Office or a non-conformist church/chapel, and even more unfortunately you can't order this certificate online. You have to obtain a bankers draft in sterling, which pushes up the cost considerably.

    The cheapest and easiest way therefore is to order direct from the GRO, and pay by plastic. http://www.
    gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
    One major rule is that you must always write the name as it's written in the GRO Index. e.g. if the Index says Fredrick then you write Fredrick, not Frederick.

    Pam
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 24-02-2012 at 6:35 AM. Reason: Pressed 'submit' before I'd finished typing.

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    If the Elizabeth Sandford is correct then you'll find her baptism (in 1873, though she was born in 1867) on the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks site. http://www.
    lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html

    Nothing for Mary Green though.
    I would think that although Mary is listed as being 8 in the 1911 census that her birth registration was in December quarter 1901, Prescot registration district.
    The only other Mary Green birth registration in Prescot district 1901 -1904 is Mary Winifred in Dec quarter 1902, and in 1911 she's with her parents Joseph and Sarah so obviously not 'yours'.

    Pam
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 24-02-2012 at 7:00 AM. Reason: Corrected URL that didn't work

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    Hello again, I now have the birth certificate of William Bishop and can verify his father was William Herbert Bishop mother Mary Ann Hunt, they lived in 290 Boundary Road St. Helens from the information you have already given me from the 1911 census I am guessing he was born around 1878 and Mary around 1875 and married in the March quarter 1896. Any additional help you can give me would be most appreciated cannot thank you enough for everything so far Cheers Val

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Any additional help you can give me would be most appreciated cannot thank you enough for everything so far Cheers Val
    You are so going to regret saying that in a minute, Val.

    Now you have to splash the cash again, and get the marriage certificate for William and Mary Ann from March quarter 1896.
    Fingers crossed that it will contain the names of their fathers and the fathers' occupations, which will help us to verify William and Mary Ann on earlier censuses. (People have a habit of changing their place of birth from one census to another. And don't get me started on people who are 21 in one census, and then 10 years later are only 29!)

    Pam

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    Hi Pam, Have now applied for the mariage cert for William Bishop and Mary Ann Hunt so we will see what that comes up with. Could you see if you can get anything on a marriage to William Bishop and Ella Chisnall around 1950 St. Helens have searched but cant find anything though his daughter says this happened about this time. Appreciate Val

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Hi Val,
    We have to be careful as we could be straying into the realms of living people, although as we're only talking information which is in the public domain via the GRO Index, we may be OK. (If you have access to Ancestry UK or worldwide, or FMP UK, either at home or via a local genealogical library or LDS Family History centre, then you can check all these details yourself.)
    FreeBMD has certain years transcribed up to 1960 though coverage for the 1950s is still a work in progress. It does have the images up to 1983, even if the years aren't transcribed. You just have to search for them using the 'view images' link on the opening page. A little cumbersome, but free apart from download time if you're on dial-up. http://
    freebmd.rootsweb.com/

    I can't find a marriage for those two names either, and I searched 1930 - 1965, in all regions.
    I then searched for William Bishop marying a Chisnall/Chisnell (plus, allegedly, variants) same time and place, again with zilch results.
    Next it was William Bishop marrying an Ella, same time and place. One result in Oxfordshire in 1943, which is on FreeBMD.

    There is a death registration for an Ella Bishop in St Helens in 2002, which says Ella's date of birth was 2 November 1912. Does this sort of fit in with the age of your William? Admittedly if he married circa 1950, he could have been born circe 1930, though that would make him something of a toy boy, and I don't know if they had many of them to the pound in St Helens.
    That Ella was cremated at St Helen's 16 April 2002. (Google St Helen's cemetery, and it should be the first hit as St Helens council.)

    (There are more Ella Bishop deaths, I just picked out the most obvious one with regards to St Helens/Lancashire. William and Ella could have left the district.)

    There are two other William Bishop deaths in St Helen's registration district 1943-2006.
    Plain William who died in 1972 had a birthdate of 6 May 1898. He was cremated at St St Helens.
    William Joseph, who died in 1992, was born 17 Sept 1921.

    St Helen's cemetery has a William John cremated in March 1978. Fairly certain that he's the one with a death registration in Liverpool registration district, and a birth date of 1 Feb 1898. (Completely off-topic, he's the one who's baptism Ron-One found in post # 7.)

    And never mind smilie - I want :spark of genuis: smilie
    Following on from the William John born in 1898, does this mean that the plain William born May 1898 and who died 1972 is the William who married Mary Green?

    There's also a Richard William N Bishop, who died in 1994, and his birthdate was 25 Dec 1912. He was cremated in St Helens.

    The William John who died in Liverpool registration district but who was cremated in St Helens in 1978 shows part of the problem when you're missing certain facts, especially when you're dealing with a popular name in a highly-populated area. The death is registered in the district in which someone died, but burial/cremation can take place anywhere. (A bit like someone dying in Darwin, but being buried in Melbourne or any place inbetween!)
    Same with marriage - my Norfolk lot were proper pests for trotting off to London to get married before trotting back to Norfolk to live, so thank goodness for Ancestry's London marriages, else I'd still be looking for the little blighters!)

    I did find one child with father Bishop and mother Chisnall. December quarter 1948. Only you can decide whether you want to buy the certificate with the proviso that the father's name is William. I wouldn't specify the mother's forename - Ella might not have been the name she was born with.

    I hope I've managed to explain everythig clearly - if not, just yell.

    p.s. Re-readiing your post - Is William's daughter William and Ella's daughter? Or William's from an earlier/later marriage?

    Pam

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    Hi Pam, Cant thank you enough for all the help you give me. Will slowly weed through all this info and see how much I can glean from it. As I said in the beginning this is not my family but my daughters mother in law and she is the daughter of William born may 1898 and Mary Green. She was the last child born to them before Mary died. There were quite a few children William J,1921 Lillian 1923, Mabel 1925,James 1928, George 1929, Tommy 1931, betty, Raymond and Mary 1939. There was also a Kenneth same father but different mother. Mary remembers the wedding of William and Ella but she was not allowed to attend. Will ask if she knows if they had any children. thanks again Val

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    Hi there its me the pest again lol I now have the marriage cert for William herbert Bishop and Mary ann Hunt Both lived in Parr her in Foster street and cant quite make out his looks like Ramford St. His father Arthur and her father Thomas. Date of marriage March 15 1896. Thanks again Val

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