Lilian Faith Thompson Harris Greenwood????

[julielou2]

Hello all

I've got a juicy problem which I've been unable to crack so I thought I'd see how you experienced brick wall smashers do it.

My husband's great grandmother seems to have been a complete and utter fantasist (in my husband's words).

The woman in question is mother to a Royston Cotton (birth registered at Tynemouth, q/e Sep 1917, vol 10b, page 424) whose mother's maiden name is down as Harris-Greenwood. Royston's sister Doreen who was born in 1920 has her mother's maiden name showing as Greenwood.

On questioning, my father in law gave this woman's name as Lilian Faith Elvida Ivena Thompson Greenwood and when asked if this was a joke responded that this was the name she had always used!

Royston Cotton's father was Charles Cotton (born circa Dec 1891 in Skipton, North Yorkshire). I've found that Charles Cotton married "Faith Greenwood" in a wedding that was registered in Skipton, q/e Mar 1913. I ordered this marriage certificate for more information on her but naturally it's raised more questions than it's answered. The wedding took place on 18 January 1913 but a date of 14 September 1913 was originally shown and has been crossed out and initialled. Her father is listed as Arthur Greenwood (deceased) whose profession is down as a Doctor of Medicine (which I doubt very much as it doesn't seem to "fit"). Her age is on the marriage certificate is shown as 18, but why then is there no Faith Greenwood born 1895 on the 1901 census? Both Charles Cotton and Faith Greenwood are shown as residing at Middleton Top, Cowling, Yorkshire at the time of the marriage.

What I can't do is find Lilian/Faith Greenwood/Harris being born on any BMD records, appearing on any censuses and I can't find her mother. Who was this woman, why does she have so many names, why does her name keep changing, is she the scarlet pimpernel? I'm even doubting the information that she gave the marriage celebrant about her father's name! I suppose she might have been out of the country at the time of the 1901 census but that's the only explanation I can think of.

Sorry for the essay, but I thought it best to give the information I've got so far. How do I sort out truth from fiction and who is Faith Greenwood's mother and father?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jules

[bumblebee]

Hi Jules

Can you just clarify the full name that she used on her childrens birth certificates, was it Lilian Harris Greenwood on one and Lilian Greenwood on another, but Faith Greenwood on her marriage certificate.

Bumblebee

[julielou2]

Hi Jules

Can you just clarify the full name that she used on her childrens birth certificates, was it Lilian Harris Greenwood on one and Lilian Greenwood on another, but Faith Greenwood on her marriage certificate.

Bumblebee

Hello Bumblebee

I haven't got the childrens' birth certificates but I've looked up on freeBMD and for Royston Cotton's birth the mother's maiden name is listed as Harris-Greenwood. For Doreen Cotton's birth, also on freeBMD, the mother's maiden name is shown as Greenwood.

When she married Charles Cotton, she gave the name Faith Greenwood (name shown on the marriage certificate).

[Procat]

This is probably no connection whatever but I thought I would throw it in the ring:

1901 census

RG13; Piece: 425; Folio: 20; Page: 31

Annie Harris, Head, Widow, 49, Caretaker, Holt, Wilts
William Harris, Son, S, 15, Porter? Leather, Worker, Lambeth, London
James Harris, Son, S, 13, House Boy, Worker, Lambeth, London
Faith Harris, Dau, S, 6, St Pancras, London

1891 census

RG12; Piece: 121; Folio 62; Page 42

Arthur Harris, Head, M., 32, Packer Furniture, London, Paddington
Annie Harris, Wife, M, 39, Wilts, Holt
William Harris, Son, 5, London, Lambeth
James S Harris, Son, 3, London, Lambeth
Frederick Harris, Son, 11m, London, St Giles

[julielou2]

This is probably no connection whatever but I thought I would throw it in the ring:

1901 census

RG13; Piece: 425; Folio: 20; Page: 31

Annie Harris, Head, Widow, 49, Caretaker, Holt, Wilts
William Harris, Son, S, 15, Porter? Leather, Worker, Lambeth, London
James Harris, Son, S, 13, House Boy, Worker, Lambeth, London
Faith Harris, Dau, S, 6, St Pancras, London

1891 census

RG12; Piece: 121; Folio 62; Page 42

Arthur Harris, Head, M., 32, Packer Furniture, London, Paddington
Annie Harris, Wife, M, 39, Wilts, Holt
William Harris, Son, 5, London, Lambeth
James S Harris, Son, 3, London, Lambeth
Frederick Harris, Son, 11m, London, St Giles

Hmmmm, rather worrying that when I do my A**y search Faith Harris (exact search) on the 1901 census, I only get one person come up and that is a different person born in 1854 who is married to a Richard and living in Suffolk!

So, thank you for the additional info - now off to cross examine A**y.

Has anyone got anything else? How could I find Faith/Lilian's mother? How could I check online if her father Arthur Greenwood was a doctor of medicine? Where was she from? How can I get further back on her branch?

[Procat]

It was mis-indexed. From memory as Herris. Just search for Faith and the reference and you should find them.

[julielou2]

It was mis-indexed. From memory as Herris. Just search for Faith and the reference and you should find them.

I've looked all over the A**y website and I can't find where to search a census entry off a reference.

I thought there was somewhere but they seem to have hidden it somewhere obscure. I've tried the old search way and the new one and I can't find it.

Could anyone tell me where I go to on A** to do this?

It's going to be really obvious isn't it, once enlightened me.

[Procat]

Select the census year that you want eg 1901

Scroll slowly down the search page until you come to the word "census"

Just below that you should see several boxes to enter the reference numbers.

[Procat]

Just realised what your problem may be.

If you scroll down the page and see an option to "Show advanced search options" you need to click on that.

Also, I use the old search engine. The new one sucks and I took great pleasure in telling them that when they sent me a survey.

[julielou2]

Select the census year that you want eg 1901

Scroll slowly down the search page until you come to the word "census"

Just below that you should see several boxes to enter the reference numbers.

They've taken this feature out of the new search experience so I still couldn't find it (until I switched back to the old version). Thank you for your guidance and input.

Anyway I've found the entry for Faith Harris and I suppose this might well be her, in the absence of a Faith Greenwood. I wonder if the father's name of Arthur on the marriage certificate was a total fabrication? Or do you think that Annie Harris had an affair with an Arthur Greenwood and Faith was the result, hence the confusion over who her father was?

Would other B-G forum members proceed down the route of assuming that Annie Harris was the maternal grandmother of Royston Cotton?