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  1. #11
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    Some further research is leading me towards Richard Johns being the father of Susan Jane's child

    Please look at my Psts #4 & 8.

    He was still there in 1911 when all that were there [apart from Sarah Jane's mother] was hinself and Laura who had seperated from her husband.

    Either Richard or Laura was present at her death and was the informant.

    Richard was into a relationship with Elizabeth Thomas and after her death in 1912, Richard and Elizabeth married - 1st q. 1913. Then in March 1913, Richard, his wife Elizabeth and Laura went to Boston Mass.

    Am I still grasping or is this more conclusive?

  2. #12
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    I am now satisfied that Richard Henry Johns is the father of Joseph Henry Bray.

    I have him born in Jul-Sep q. 1861 and baptised in Gunwalloe on on January 5, 1862. His parents were Joseph Thomas Johns and Mary Jane - nee Downing. The 1871 census threw me a bit of a curve-ball as Richard H. was with his grandparents Richard Downing and Mary - nee Mitchell. From this I assumed his parents were dead, but now it appears he was just visiting.

    His parents were alive and well and living in Breage with Richard H.'s siblings - William, John, Eliza and Joseph.

    Then we have Richard H. moving to Sithney in the mid 1870's and working as a servant and living 3 houses away from the Bray family.

    The rest [after 1891] up until 1911 is a given.

    The Russell family in 1881 with whom he was living in 1881 consisted of 3 unmarried Russells - between the ages of 21 and 9. In 1891 the eldest William R. Russell was married and renting a Dairy. He married about 1887. His 3 younger siblings I have not found as yet after 1881.

    It therefore makes sense to me that Richard H. now aged 26 [in 18887] would move in with his fiends the Bray family. In 1887 Susan Jane was 17 years old. During the time together, one thing led to another and James Henry Bray was born. Why Susan Jane and Richard Henry didn't marry is unknow and it also appears that Susan Jane went to New York USA in the September of 1891.

    Richard Henry continued to live with the Bray's along with his 'son' until the death of William Henry in 1895. From 1895 on Susan Jane's siblings moved away or got married. Richard H. was a benefit to Mary Jane as he contributed to the expenses of the house and the raising of James Henry. Richard H was well liked by the family. He was a witness at the marriage of Belinda Bray to Francis Eddy on August 1, 1892. He also contributed to the cost of travel to Boston, Mass. for Elizabeth Mary in order for her to marry John Hollow Cocking on February 1, 1899.

    After the death of their father, Harry Sithney Bray and Samuel George Bray also went to Boston, Mass.

    So in 1901 the household consisted of Mary Jane, daughter Laura, grandson John Henry Bray and Richard.

    In 1906 [Apr.-Jun. q.] Laura married Samuel John Williams. I don't have the certificate but it is likely that as the marriage was in the Helston R.D. that Richard was also a witness. This marriage does not appear to have lasted. By 1911 Laura is back home with mum and Richard. After Laura married, Richard entered into a relationship with Elizabeth Thomas.

    Mary Jane died in 1912 [Jul.-Sep.q.]. The seperation from Samuel John [by Laura] seems definite. Richard marries Elizabeth Jan.-Mar.q 1913. In late March 1913, Laura [under her maiden name - Bray] along with Richard and Elizabeth head to Boston. Their intended residence in Mass. was with Harry Sithney Bray.

    If the death in 1924 turns out to be the right Richard H. then he[they] returned so have to track that and order the death cert.

    So, from the 1880's to [at least 1913] Richard H. was in close proximity to one or more member of the Bray family.

    That I think is enough proof of him being the father

    Colin

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    Have been checking my files, certificates and notes and discovered that I don't have the death cert. of 1924 for Richard Johns. This has now been ordered.

    Susan didn't go to the U. S. in 1891 but actually in 1900.

    This is just to let folks know that Susan Jane has been found - and does not appear to have been much of a 'mother' to her son James Henry Bray!!

    Colin

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    As I mentioned in post #12, I am convinced now that Richard Johns is the biological father of James Henry Bray [Susan Jane's son]

    May I suggest that this post [#12] be considered when reviewing the item below?

    Looking at the passenger list for the S.S. Ivernia that arrived in Boston, Mass. on March 28, 1913 [Boston Passenger & Crew Lists 1820-1943] on Ancestry, I find Richard and Elizabeth Johns. They both are indicated as age 48 and Richard is a Tin Miner. He had paid the fare for both he and his wife and had $30.00 cash with him. He had previously been in the U.S. in 1912. They intend to stay with Harry Bray - Susan Jane's brother. Harry is described in the manifest as nephew.

    If my interpretation of relationships is correct, then this is the final confirmation of his fathering with Susan Jane, my James Henry.

    Do others agree?

    It seems to me that after Mary Jane died in 1912, he planned to marry Elizabeth and went to the U.S. on a trial run to see if he and she would be accepted by the family. He found that he was accepted and he and Elizabeth left in March 1913.

    Colin

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    I will now, in U.S.A. Genealogy forum, set up a thread on Richard and his life in the U.S.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Rowledge View Post
    They intend to stay with Harry Bray - Susan Jane's brother. Harry is described in the manifest as nephew.
    If my interpretation of relationships is correct, then this is the final confirmation of his fathering with Susan Jane, my James Henry.
    Do others agree?
    Colin, what follows is only my personal view, and others may disagree.

    Your efforts to prove this relationship have been superhuman. Nevertheless, I personally would not be convinced that Harry BRAY's being described as a nephew to Richard JOHNS proves Richard's paternity of Joseph Henry BRAY. To me, it simply indicates that Richard JOHNS regarded himself as a sibling of one of Harry BRAY's parents, which in itself I find puzzling.

    Sometimes, of course, 100% proof is not achievable, especially when no father is named on a birth certificate. In those cases we can choose either to continue sitting on the fence, or to go with the balance of probability. In this case I think it really has to be your own decision as to how you interpret the evidence that you've collected and which way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Rowledge View Post
    Now for Richard's background!

    His birth was registered in the Helston R.D Jul-Sep q. 1861. This included the parish of Gunwalloe. Full name was Richard Henry Johns.

    He was baptised as such in Gunwalloe on January 5, 1862. Parents were Joseph Johns and Mary Jane.

    Joseph Johns married Mary Jane Downing in Helston on April 7, 1861 in Helston. Her father was Richard Downing a Mason by trade.

    1871 Census - RG10/2304/15/21 - he is with his grandparents - Richard and Mary Downing - in Helston and living on Wendron Street. Richard Downing is a Mason by trade. Young Richard is on the schedule as Richard H. a scholar. Birthplace is Gunwalloe

    1881 Census - RG11/2322/109/2 - he is now a employed as a Servant at the home of an unmarried man named Russell. Mr Russell is a Miller by trade. The residence is in Sithney Green, Sithney. 3 residences away from this household is the Bray family includinjg Susan Jane.

    Still a great leap of faith?
    Just to confuse you even more - are you sure that the Gunwalloe Richard is the one you are looking for - in 1891 and 1901 he claims to be born at Breage and there are several possible candidates there if you look at the 1871 census and allow a year or so either side.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesleys View Post
    Just to confuse you even more - are you sure that the Gunwalloe Richard is the one you are looking for - in 1891 and 1901 he claims to be born at Breage and there are several possible candidates there if you look at the 1871 census and allow a year or so either side.
    There is also the 'possibility' that he could be the son of Richard Johns and Loveday - formerly Exelby - that was born in Breage in 1858.

    This would match the 1891 and 1901 census.

    In truth I don't have his birth cert. The person I am helping is my 2nd cousin and his Great grandmother is Susan Jane and his Grandfather is James Henry. We are trying to determine who is his biological Great-grandfather.

    Colin

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