+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: Royal Navy WW1?

  1. #11
    A fountain of knowledge
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Essendon, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by notanotherminer View Post
    Thanks for the information, Lenore. I'm not really familiar with Australian history so that knowledge will probably come in useful at a later date. Presumably if he was in the UK and was classed as a British citizen he would have been subject to the same regulations as any other able bodied man who was eligible for military service.
    <snip>
    I'm a little puzzled about the uniform. All Naval Ratings with the exception of artificer apprentices wear their branch badge on their right arm. This signifies which branch (or trade) they belong to. Your man doesn't appear to have one which is unusual. Having said that I do know that dress uniform altered slightly between the 2 wars so his may have been subject to a different dress code.
    Hi Graham,

    Thanks, that it all good info re HMS Pembroke.

    I don't know that an Australian in the UK would be subject to the same regs as other able bodied British subjects, but he would subject himself to them by volunteering. But it is an interesting technical question. You know that the AIF was not subject to the same British Military law - gave the old Generals no end of the vapours.

    I would have suggested that maybe Jim was out in his new tropical suit prior to sewing on his badges - but the uniform looks a little bit lived in, so I don't know if that is the case. Maybe the merchant seamen were a bit different? Or as you say, regs a little different in this period. I can't seem to lock into a good set of images of RN ratings in WW1 anywhere to test the theory.

    Best wishes,

    Lenore

  2. #12
    Has a well deserved spectacular aura Sandra Parker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Darwin, Australia
    Posts
    833
    Thanks
    55
    Thanked 127 Times in 78 Posts

    Default

    I'm far from an expert, but initial reaction.
    The uniform looks rather scruffy, (shouldn't there be creases in the trousers?) the hat is not straight, the name not being at the front and the ribbon showing at the side. It is definitely a studio shot, so could have been taken anywhere. This postcard was not 'sent', so it must have been in an envelope or something to get to his family.
    Try the usual alliedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=146 or the usual 1914-1918.net/ who have a good naval WW1 forum.
    Isn't it great to have these 'little mysteries' to chase.

    Good luck,

    Sandra whose spectacled aura doesn't go back to WW1

  3. #13
    Has a well deserved spectacular aura Sandra Parker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Darwin, Australia
    Posts
    833
    Thanks
    55
    Thanked 127 Times in 78 Posts

    Default

    Have just checked the Government online site at 'the usual' online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search .
    there are 74 matching records for Eynon as 4 separate pages. Each result page costs $ 0.99 to view.
    Might be worth checking if you haven't done so already.
    There are no records shown on the Government Marine records for Eynon. (I have only checked the Gov site).
    Sandra

  4. #14
    Knowledgeable and helpful peter nicholl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    758
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 47 Times in 40 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra Parker View Post
    I'm far from an expert, but initial reaction.
    The uniform looks rather scruffy, (shouldn't there be creases in the trousers?) the hat is not straight, the name not being at the front and the ribbon showing at the side.
    The bow of the ribbon should be positioned above the left ear and the tails should be of equal length and no more than two inches long. It looks as though the cap was set so that the full wording could be seen in the photo. Any creases would be horizontal, but if he'd just come from a ship the uniform may look a bit scruffy.
    The RAN come into being in1911 and volunteers were sought from the RN to serve with the RAN through what was termed the RAN Agreement. Of the 3800 permanent personnel of the RAN at the outbreak of WW1, 380 were RN "RAN Agreement" men. I believe that 3 of the 4 sailors killed on HMAS Sydney at the Battle of the Cocos Islands were RN.
    Last edited by peter nicholl; 22-08-2011 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Words missing
    Peter Nicholl
    Researching:Nicholl,Boater, Haselgrove & Vaughan
    http://petenicholl.me.uk

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to peter nicholl For This Useful Post:

    Lenore (22-08-2011), Sandra Parker (22-08-2011)

  6. #15
    A fountain of knowledge
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Essendon, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Hello folks,

    Thank you all for your useful observations. I feel the need to recap a bit and see where we are now.

    From family lore it would appear that Jim was in the Merchant Navy (I'm not clear whether there was an Australian Merchant Navy), and may have had his ship commissioned as HM Ship during the war. As Jim was wearing a white suit, he more than likely had his photo taken in Egypt, and it was looking a little scruffy because he had just come off a ship. The cap tally shows his "base depot", primarily to confuse enemy spies. (He might have spent no time at all at Chatham perhaps, but that was still his assigned depot?)

    Family lore has it that he missed his ship when drunk, but is not likely to have been threatened with anything, but more likely that he got assigned to a minesweeper because he had missed his ship, and they would have wanted men for the minesweepers.

    There is an anomoly with the uniform in that he does not have his "branch" badge on his right sleeve. (I think here I'd offer the explanation that he was likely to be non-compliant, going on family traits!)

    It would be helpful if one could examine a whole lot of ratings in uniform to see if they all had their branch badges on their right sleeve at all times. Could they have been in short supply of a particular badge? Waiting on them to come from Manchester? Could commissioning merchant navy ships have made some things in short supply?

    To the problem of any naval record mentioning him - is there any extant series of records in which he would certainly be mentioned? I've drawn a blank at the National Archives, though many series are probably not indexed.

    I guess the other source of records would be Merchant Navy, but that is a whole other area I know little about.

    Best wishes,


    Lenore

    If he was on a ship which was mined/torpedoed, could he have been mentioned in a newspaper reporting on crews that were saved? I reckon I've seen such reports, but can't remember if it was in the period of WW1. Might have been in sailing ship days.

  7. #16
    A fountain of knowledge
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Essendon, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Hello folks,

    Thank you all for your useful observations. I feel the need to recap a bit and see where we are now.

    From family lore it would appear that Jim was in the Merchant Navy (I'm not clear whether there was an Australian Merchant Navy), and may have had his ship commissioned as HM Ship during the war. As Jim was wearing a white suit, he more than likely had his photo taken in Egypt, and it was looking a little scruffy because he had just come off a ship. The cap tally shows his "base depot", primarily to confuse enemy spies. (He might have spent no time at all at Chatham perhaps, but that was still his assigned depot?)

    Family lore has it that he missed his ship when drunk, but is not likely to have been threatened with anything, but more likely that he got assigned to a minesweeper because he had missed his ship, and they would have wanted men for the minesweepers.

    There is an anomoly with the uniform in that he does not have his "branch" badge on his right sleeve. (I think here I'd offer the explanation that he was likely to be non-compliant, going on family traits!)

    It would be helpful if one could examine a whole lot of ratings in uniform to see if they all had their branch badges on their right sleeve at all times. Could they have been in short supply of a particular badge? Waiting on them to come from Manchester? Could commissioning merchant navy ships have made some things in short supply?

    To the problem of any naval record mentioning him - is there any extant series of records in which he would certainly be mentioned? I've drawn a blank at the National Archives, though many series are probably not indexed.

    I guess the other source of records would be Merchant Navy, but that is a whole other area I know little about.

    Best wishes,


    Lenore

    If he was on a ship which was mined/torpedoed, could he have been mentioned in a newspaper reporting on crews that were saved? I reckon I've seen such reports, but can't remember if it was in the period of WW1. Might have been in sailing ship days.

  8. #17
    Has a well deserved spectacular aura Sandra Parker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Darwin, Australia
    Posts
    833
    Thanks
    55
    Thanked 127 Times in 78 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenore View Post
    ..wearing a white suit, he more than likely had his photo taken in Egypt, and it was looking a little scruffy because he had just come off a ship. ....

    There is an anomoly with the uniform in that he does not have his "branch" badge on his right sleeve. (I think here I'd offer the explanation that he was likely to be non-compliant, going on family traits!)

    Don't mean to throw a spanner in the works, but a couple of things still bother me.
    What makes you think the photo was taken in Egypt? If it is just the white uniform, then he could have had it with him wherever he was?.I'm still a bit bothered about the scruffy uniform. The navy certainly didn't have posed-in-front-of-props, photos, so it must have been in a studio somewhere, in which case he would surely have wanted to look his best for a picture to show someone and would not have just come off duty.
    As for non compliance, I am fairly certain that there was no such thing as non compliance with regard to the correct wearing of uniform and necessary insignias.(more knowledgeable members with a background in any of the services, especially in that period, will have a view on that)
    My family have a long background in various marine services, and I have never ever seen a posed photo in anything less that correct uniform,including the horizontal creases when appropriate even during WW1 & 2, so I am rather perplexed at the general appearance of your chap in this photo.
    I do hope you'll be able to locate some references in the naval records to help clear up the mystery. There are quite a lot of records available, though it may require some outlay from UK & Australian archives.
    Good luck
    Sandra

  9. #18
    Knowledgeable and helpful peter nicholl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    758
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 47 Times in 40 Posts

    Default

    Re-creases, see this for comparison petenicholl.me.uk/page15.html
    Peter Nicholl
    Researching:Nicholl,Boater, Haselgrove & Vaughan
    http://petenicholl.me.uk

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to peter nicholl For This Useful Post:

    Lenore (23-08-2011)

  11. #19
    A fountain of knowledge
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Essendon, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra Parker View Post
    What makes you think the photo was taken in Egypt? If it is just the white uniform, then he could have had it with him wherever he was?.
    Sandra
    It's the white uniform plus the fact that he has written 'To mother with best love from Egypt' on the back.

  12. #20
    A fountain of knowledge
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Essendon, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Hello folks,

    It is nearly two years since I made my first post on the subject of my mother's Uncle Jim and whether or not he served in the RN during the war.

    Mother lately decided to paint a minesweeper, and began chatting to me about Uncle Jim and his ship the Mopsa again. I told her that I had already searched for the Mopsa before and didn't do any good (but in fact had forgotten that useful fact that you have to repeat searches over and over again because there is always more coming online). So I made some remark about "We don't even know if it was the Mopsa", and her reply was, "He was always talking about the Mopsa, and it said Mopsa on the card." "Card? What card?" "The card he sent home". "I've never seen any card", and more in that vein.

    So when I went by on Sunday, out she comes with this card - a printed Christmas card with the wishes:

    "May your Christmas Joys be many
    And your New Year sorrows few
    Is the Hearty Wish of
    J Eynon RN
    H M Armed Trawler Mopsa
    At sea, Xmas, 1915".

    I took a quick photo of this card, and you can see it on this webpage:
    http://empirecall.pbworks.com/w/page...2C%20D%20J%20B Scroll down to the bottom.


    I did another search for H M Trawler Mopsa, and sure enough, up comes a page with even a photo! This page appears to have gone online the month before my original post - and my original post was probably a few weeks after my original search. Bad timing! Here is a page on the Mopsa:
    http://www.llangibby.eclipse.co.uk/m...mopsa_h966.htm

    Just goes to show you I need to go through my mother's drawers more carefully! I am really surprised I have never seen the card before, and Mum never mentioned it before. It does tend to confirm he was served with the RN during WW1, that he did serve on a minesweeper called Mopsa, and he may well have been in the Dardanelles as my mother said in 1915 - the uniform and the postcard confirms he was in the Middle East. The story about him having the choice of being shot or going on the minesweeper may have been one of Jim's own embellishments, perhaps. I think the size of the vessel and the small crew (of nine in WW2 and probably also WW1) would explain the crumpled uniform - if the ship had been a fishing trawler before the war it probably wasn't outfitted with a laundry.

    It would be so interesting to learn some more about his time at sea - back to the search engines, I guess. You just never know what you will find at sea.

    I thank everyone for their input, I am much better educated than I was when I started out, and plenty more to learn.

    Best wishes,

    Lenore

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Select a file: