Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1
    Nicolaas
    Guest

    Default William Cain and Bridget O'Neill

    I have a birth certificate of Rose Ann Cain, born 9 April 1856, registration district West-Derby, subdistrict Toxteth Park, County of Lancaster.

    The parents are given as William Cain, joiner, and Bridget Cain, formerly O'Neill. Their address is given as "Mary's Place, Robert Street, Toxteth Park".

    I am unable to find this couple in the census; neither can I find their marriage.

    Any help will be very much appreciated!

  2. #2
    Brick wall demolition expert!
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    South London
    Posts
    3,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolaas View Post
    I am unable to find this couple in the census
    How about this family?

    1861: RG9; Piece: 2699; Folio: 63; Page: 32
    At 35 Fisher St, Toxteth Park
    KEAN, William 34, ship joiner, Ireland
    KEAN, Bridget 31, Ireland
    KEAN, Ann 11, Ireland
    KEAN, James 6, Ireland
    KEAN, Rosanna 4, Liverpool
    KEAN, John 2, Liverpool
    KEAN, Alice 2 mo, Liverpool
    ONEILL, Alice mother-in-law, 60, Ireland

    Bridget CAIN (a widow?) and children are in the 1871 census at RG10/3795, f61, p8.

    (census crown copyright, in the care of the TNA)

    NOTE: I think your thread will attract more attention if it is moved to the General Family History Queries forum or perhaps the General Irish Family History forum, (since they may have married in Ireland.) Do you have a preference?

  3. #3
    Brick wall demolition expert!
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    South London
    Posts
    3,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolaas View Post
    I have a birth certificate of Rose Ann Cain, born 9 April 1856, registration district West-Derby, subdistrict Toxteth Park, County of Lancaster.
    There is also a christening for a Rosanna Cain at St Patrick, Liverpool on 13 Apr 1856. Birth date recorded as 9 Apr 1856. Parents Gulielmi Cain and Brigetta Oneill.

    I see at least one other christening (there may be more) - Alicia Cain born 24 Jan 1861, parents Gulielmi Cain and Brigetta Oneill. Alicia certainly ties in with the census above.

  4. #4
    Nicolaas
    Guest

    Default

    Dear Olliecat,

    I have been so amazed and happy about the speed and quality of the responses on queries I submitted, that I failed to read properly the instructions about the various forums (fora?).

    As is to be expected given the census data, the marriage of William Kean (Cain) and Bridget O'Neill cannot be found in England. I would be glad if this query could be transferred to the General Irish History Forum, hoping that someone there is able to find the marriage.

    Thank you again!

    Nicolaas

  5. #5
    Procat
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolaas View Post
    I would be glad if this query could be transferred to the General Irish History Forum, hoping that someone there is able to find the marriage.Nicolaas
    Done

  6. #6
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,835

    Default

    Hi Nicolaas

    Firstly (and for a variety of reasons) Irish records are incomplete and those that do exist may not be found all in one place. So please have a good read of the stickies and relevant earlier posts on the Ireland forum.

    Before looking at Irish records it is helpful if you can find a birthplace in Ireland for your family members who moved to UK- so check all the censuses to see if a town or county is given (rather than just 'Ireland') In your case I would try and see how Ann is described in later censuses.

    Useful Irish sites include Family Search , RootsIreland (pay site), Irish Genealogy (free,, mainly Dublin area), Emerald Ancestors (pay site Northern Ireland)

    Roots Ireland do have one possible birth for an Ann Cain 1849 Co Down, parents William Cain and Bridget O'Neill - but please bear in mind that these are very common names and may be totally unconnected to your family! Co Down is in Northern Ireland and includes part of Belfast.

  7. #7
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland
    Posts
    628

    Default

    Statutory recording of RC marriages didn’t start in Ireland till 1864. Your couple clearly married before that so you won’t find a civil marriage record for them in Ireland. You may find the marriage in the parish records but, as other posts have indicated, there is no single comprehensive index for all the country. Some RC parish records are on line, some are still held in paper form in the parish (with copies in the National Library Dublin), and some have been lost.

    Ideally you need to know the parish or townland in Ireland that they came from. Without that information and with such common names it is a bit of a needle in haystack. Unfortunately the 1841 & 1851 Irish censuses (which presumably they were in) were destroyed in the Irish civil war in 1922. In addition to checking every English census, you might try wills, family bibles, military records (if applicable) and any poor law applications which often give the applicants home parish. If you do establish where they came from, this link will tell you what records survive for each RC parish and where they are kept:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/b...unties/rcmaps/

  8. #8
    Brick wall demolition expert!
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    South London
    Posts
    3,678

    Default

    Bridget CAIN in the 1871 census does not state where in Ireland she was born and daughter Ann is not present. Just on the off-chance I thought I'd look for William and Bridget in Toxteth Park in 1851 and I came across these ...

    1851: HO107; Piece: 2187; Folio: 7; Page: 7 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
    36 Henderson St, Toxteth Park
    CAIN, William, 25, lodger, marr, mariner, ? Ireland
    CAIN, Bridget, 23, wife (crossed out), marr, Kilrash, Clare, Ireland
    ... other individuals are present ...

    OR

    1851: HO107 Piece: 2186 Folio: 517 Page: 17 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
    19 Penrith Street, Toxteth Park Extra Parochial, Liverpool
    CAIN, William, 26, lodger, marr, carpenter Newry Ireland
    CAIN, Bridget, 23, lodger, marr, Newry Ireland
    ... other individuals are present ...

    I think the I saw the first couple (William the mariner) in the later census and so they can be eliminated. You would have to check this. As for the second couple, there is no daughter Ann with them but it's possible she was with relatives (perhaps in Ireland.) Although in the 1861 census the second child James was recorded as being born in Ireland, in the 1871 census it has him born in Liverpool. As an aside, James KEAN was baptised on 25 Jun 1854 at St Patrick's, Liverpool.

    I can't tell for sure if the second couple are yours but I thought I point them out just in case. By the way, Newry lies on the border between Co. Armagh and Co. Down.

    The suggestion by grisel of locating Ann in the later census (if she can be found) to see if she states where in Ireland she was born is a good idea.

  9. #9
    Nicolaas
    Guest

    Default

    Dear Olliecat,

    Thank you for helping me!

    I do agree that the second couple in the 1851 census is the right one; carpenter in 1851, ship joiner in 1861. It may be that Ann died very young; there is a death in 1850 of a Ann Cain in West Derby.

    In RootsIreland I found a church marriage in the parish/district Newry and Mourne, 18 Oct 1844, of William KEAN and Bridget Oneill! That seems quite promising.

  10. #10
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolaas View Post
    In RootsIreland I found a church marriage in the parish/district Newry and Mourne, 18 Oct 1844, of William KEAN and Bridget Oneill! That seems quite promising.
    That does sound interesting. Are any witnesses mentioned?

    The Ann Cain baptism was from Clonallan parish which is SE of Newry.

    Although I can't see William or Bridget you might be interested in Ros Davies Co Down, Northern Ireland Family History Research Site. (google it) It is packed with information.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: