ASHER HYMEN HART 1810-1871 PARENTS & SIBLINGS

[rockyboy]

Phillip
As there is detailed imformation arising fro posts 8,9,and 10, i will deal with them seperately. After checking my information
the details of the 1861 UK census and the details of Asher Hyman Harts death in 1871 are correct.He returned to England in
November 1854.In my information there is also reference to Sarah Elias , sister in law and Hyam Elias a brother in law. Whether
that is in Australia or England i do not presently know.His son Hyam Melbourne died at sea on the 15/5/1907 aged 58.
Regards
Rockyboy

[rockyboy]

Philip
The story of my Hart line in London revolves around Rosemary Lane.Elizabeth was born in Rosemary Lane in 1770 and died
at number 122 on 18/5/1848. The 1841 census shows a Benjamin aged 55, a Mary Hart aged 45 and a son Lawrence aged,
4 living at 122. The Sun Fire Records date from 1826 and the Kellys PO directory for London in 1848 still show him there.
That would make 62 in 1848. He was also the informant for Elizabeths death. So he must be the Benjamin mentioned in
the Sun Fire Records of 1826 The only information i have on Leib Hatter is that his Hebrew name was possibly Leib/zvi Hette
Hart. Hyam was perhaps a member of the Freemasons Lodge of Israel which met at the public house of Davis at 36 Rosemary
Lane This is not the first time the question why our ancestors preferred particular people as executors of their wills has arisen.
Perhaps there was personal animosity between them. I will have to keep searching .
Regards
rockyboy

[rockyboy]

Phillip
With reference to post 10, i can confirm the details of all the people you have mentioned. Hart was a common Jewish name,
and so many of the Jews in Rosemary Lane were in the clothing trade. I have no evidence of any other children of Leib Hart.
The same goes for my Benjamin. Benjamin was definitly in Rosemary Lane for many years, but whether he and Elizabeth
were brother and sister or cousins i cannot positivly say. But what does strike me is the fact that the names, professions and
localities of our respective ancestors seem to parallel to each other. It all seems too much of a coincidence.
Regards
Rockyboy

[phillip]

The more data we share the better are chance of identifying a relationship between the families or not. Pigot's Directory 1838 has Abraham Hart hatter 126 Rosemary Lane and Benjamin Hart hatter 122 Rosemary Lane; Elizabeth Hart 149 Rosemary Lane both Benjamin and Elizabeth are hatters. Abraham is at the same address in 1848 and earlier between 1834-35 at 112 Rosemary Lane. For my own line I will add later some summary details on the children of Benjamin Hart but Rosa Hart his daughter married Henry Moses clothes salesman and family lived in Leman St. I will add details.
Phillip

[phillip]

I do not know if the following name is the correct person but Doreen Berger ' The Jewish Victorian. Genealogical information from the Jewish Newspapers 1861-1870 Robert Boyd Pub 2004 has reference to the death of a Sarah Elias in Lissa Prussia age 82 relict of Mr E Elias and mother of Mr D Elias 20 Westbourne Terrace North, Bayswater 25.2.1870. This line relates to the wife of Mr D Elias and her mother Julia Jones and father James Isiah Jones plus siblings John and Edward. I have just spotted another entry in the 1871-80 volume by Berger- Death Sarah Elias 29.7.1876 at the residence of her sister Mrs HART 7 Clifton Gardens Maida Vale widow of Hyam Elias of Sydney- Asher Hymen Hart brother in law. This confirms the Elias/Hart relationship.
Phillip

[phillip]

The following records provide more data on the relationships between the Hart and Elias lines. The records are Probate Summaries for Sarah Elias and Rachel Hart:
Rachel Hart late of 7 Clifton Gardens widow died 26 Jan 1881 at 7 Clifton Gardens Maida Vale Middx. Proved by Hyam Jonas 46 Westbourne Terrace Hyde Park Merchant;Louis Joseph 3 Warrington Crescent Maida Vale The Brother; Solomon Benjamin Brunswick House Clifton Gardens; Hyam Melbourne Hart 7 Clifton Gardens Maida Vale Cigar Merchant the Brother

The Probate of Sarah Elias:
Sarah Elias late of 7 Clifton Gardens Maida Vale Widow who died 29 July 1876 at same address. Proved by Rachel Hart widow the Sister; Moses Joseph 47 Bedford Square Gentleman; Louis Joseph 3 Warrington Crescent Maida Vale Merchant the Brothers.

Doreen Berger 'The Jewish Victorian. Genealogical Information from the Jewish Newspapers 1871-80' Robert Boyd Pub 1999 has entries for Moses Joseph which relate to his son H M Joseph; Alice Joseph daughter;John E Moss son in law; Julia Rose Joseph daughter

These records indicate Sarah and her sister Rachel were born Joseph
I will search further.
Phillip

[phillip]

Doreen Berger' The Jewish Victorian. Genealogical Information from the Jewish Newspapers 1861-70' Robert Boyd Pub 2004 includes reference to Moses Joseph of 46 Bedford Square and his son Michael and daughter in law Elizabeth Hart; Sarah Hart daughter and son in law Moss Valentine. In the same volume Elizabeth Hart eldest daughter of Zalig Hart of 101 Middlesex St married at the Gt Synagogue Duke's Place 0n 3.2.1869 to Michael Joseph of 36 Westbourne Terrace North 2nd son of the late Moses Joseph of Bath. Elizabeth Hart age 53 wife of Zalig Hart died on 29.12.1869 - 2 addresses of 36 Westbourne Terrace North and 101 Middlesex Street are cited.Sarah Joseph married Michael Valentine 3rd son of Abraham Valentine on 1.3.1865. Sarah was the eldest daughter of Moses Joseph. Moses Joseph's son Arthur I Joseph married Kate Moses 5th daughter of the late Elias Moses of Sydney on 18.11.1874 at Moor Park Sydney 18.11.1878.

This data links through marriage the Elias, Moses, Hart, Joseph, Valentine families.
Phillip

[phillip]

The previous data on Michael Joseph and his marriage to Elizabeth Hart and the marriage of Michael's sister Sarah to Moss Valentine further relates to the Cemetery Scribe records on Michael and Sarah's parents Moss Joseph and Esther Samuel. Michael Joseph is Person ID1494 and Sarah Joseph Person ID 1492. There is likely to be other data on the lines on Cemetery Scribes and Synagogue Scribes sites.
Phillip

[phillip]

My apologies for mixing up Moses Joseph who married Rosetta Nathan with a different individual ( emphasizes the importance of cross checking data). The Probate Record for Moses Joseph formerly of Sydney Merchant and late of 47 Bedford Square Middlesex died 7 Feb 1889 at 47 Bedford Square Proved by Louis Charles Lumley 139 Westbourne Terrace Hyde Park Gentleman; David Morton Joseph 18 Princes Ave Liverpool Merchant;Jerrold Nathan Joseph 17 Finsbury Pavement London Solicitor the 3 sons and 3 executors. Effects- £126,692.17s. 1d

There are a range of records relating to Moses including his Old Bailey Trial 7 April 1825 with 2 others where at age 17 he was sentenced to 7 years transportation for larceny. The records include his application to marry Rosetta Nathan in 1831 NSW and the 1861 British Census indicating his return to England.
Phillip

[phillip]

Probate record for Rosetta Joseph nee Nathan;
Rosetta Joseph late of 47 Bedford Square London died 22 Jan 1891 at same address. Probate granted to Jerrold Nathan Joseph 17 Finsbury Pavement London and 3 Pembridge Villas Bayswater Solicitor the Son and one of the next of kin. Effects £3990.15s.6d

1861 Census RG9 171 68 33 ( Crown Copyright, TNA)
46 Bedford Square St Giles
Moses Joseph H M 55 Merchant b London
Rosetta Joseph wife 48 b London
Charlotte Joseph dau U 22b Sydney NSW
Sarah " " dau u 19 " "
Miriam " dau u 17 " "
Israel son u15 b Sydney NSW
Alice dau 12 " "
David son 10 " "
Joseph son9 " "
Julia dau 7 " "

RG19 348 69 3 47 Bedford Square 1871 Census Moses; wife and various children plus Amelia Merton grand daughter 13 and Sarah Merton 9 granddaughter - 1881 census 47 Bedford Square RG 11 325 75 7 Moses and Rosetta

Charlotte Joseph married Louis Charles Lumley solicitor 14.8.1861 at 46 Bedford Square
Phillip