lighterman - deptford

[deanC]

Hi ,stuck abit !!

grandmothers g.g.gfather ... william west on his daughters marrige cert it states he was a lighterman .

his daughter annie maria west ( born 1862) married james william brown born 1861 - mar 1882 deptford .

on the 1891 census she has used the name maria a brown .

on the 1881 census she is maria west living with her grandmother Ann webb (aged 78 a widower ).

using the above information iam trying !! , to establish the family line off william west and his wife (poss, nee webb ).

can anyone see the wood for the tree's ?

dean

[Kerrywood]

In case it helps us see where we're going ...

MARRIAGE
Christ Church Deptford
9 April 1882
James William Brown, 20, bachelor, Labourer, 69 Napier Street. Father - James William Brown, Verger
Annie Maria West, 20, Spinster, 3 Garden Row. F - William West, Lighterman
After banns, both signed
Witnesses - George William Ward, Caroline Webb

1881 census
RG11/712 folio 93 page 14
13 Nicholas Street, St Paul Deptford
Ann Webb Head W 78 Laundress born Kent Deptford
Caroline Webb Granddaughter Unm 19 Ironer born Kent Deptford
Maria West Granddaughter Unm 19 Mangler born Kent Greenwich

1871 census
RG10/749 folio 15 page 26
13 Nicholas Street, St Paul Deptford
Ann Webb Head W 65 Laundress born Kent Deptford
Ann Webb Gd Daur 8 born Kent Deptford

(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

Are these the correct records? If so, are there any WEBB/WEST marriages to be found in the right time-frame and area?

[Kerrywood]

are there any WEBB/WEST marriages to be found in the right time-frame and area?

Well, there is one, Rose WEBB to William WEST on 19 Nov 1861 at St Paul Deptford.

But the parish register shows that this William WEST is a Gentleman, and Rose's father is John WEBB, Gardener. Tracing this Rose WEBB back, she seems to be a different WEBB family from the one found above.

Looking a bit further ...

1861 census
RG9/393 folio 28 page 25
1 Knotts Buildings, St Paul Deptford
Ann Webb Head Mar 55 Laundress born Kent Woolwich
Elizabeth Webb Daur Unmar 18 Laundress born Kent Deptford
Arthur Room Brother Unmar 64 Brickmaker born Kent Woolwich
//
2 Knotts Buildings, St Paul Deptford
Samuel Webb Head Mar 34 Brick burner born Kent Lewisham
Harriet Webb Wife Mar 34 born Kent Deptford
Thomas Webb Son 10 born Kent Deptford
Caroline Webb Daur 8 born Kent Deptford
Eliza Webb Daur 13? mo born Kent Deptford

1851 census
HO107/1584 folio 177 page 21
Lewisham Road, St Paul Deptford
Ann Webb Head Widow 48 Laundress
Joseph Webb Son U 17 Labourer
Mary A Webb Daur 14
Sarah Webb Daur 12
Eliza Webb Daur 9
Elizabeth Webb Daur 7
William Webb Son 3
Arthur Room Lodger 50 Labourer
all born Kent Deptford

The 1841 census for the above family has a Joseph WEBB, Labourer, who could be Ann's husband. HO107/488/15 folio 30 page 14.

(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

Just wondering if one of the above daughters in 1851 might be the mother of Ann/Maria WEBB born c1862. She might have subsequently married (or taken up with) a William WEST, Lighterman.

[Jellylegs]

I think the parents of Caroline, with her Grandma Ann in 1871 and 1881 are Joseph WEBB and Susan CHALKLIN. Marriage on Ancestry's London England Marriages and Banns 1854 - 1921 (12 Jun 1854, Deptford St. Nicholas, Greenwich). Joseph's father is Joseph WEBB, a horse keeper.

Caroline's baptism is on Ancestry's London England Births and Baptisms 1813-1906 (baptised 18 Jan 1863). Interestingly, on the line below and on the same day, is a baptism for an Ann WEBB, father Robert OSBORN, a blacksmith and mother Elizabeth WEBB. I wonder if this is Annie Maria? Her mother could later have married or lived with a William WEST .

[deanC]

wow !!
lots to digest .. thanks to jellylegs and kerrywood ... all this started with a visit from a great aunt this afternoon !!!, i will be interogating .. opp's sorry asking her more questions tomorrow .
thanks again for all your help

dean

[Kerrywood]

on the same day, is a baptism for an Ann WEBB, father Robert OSBORN, a blacksmith and mother Elizabeth WEBB. I wonder if this is Annie Maria? Her mother could later have married or lived with a William WEST .

Good thinking, jellylegs.

I think Robert (John) OSBORN, blacksmith, may have married Eliza Ellen NIVEN in 1864 at St John Deptford. In 1881 they may be in Greenwich at RG11/715 folio 102 page 17 (record held by TNA, Crown copyright).

If it's the same Robert OSBORN, that 1864 marriage would have left Elizabeth WEBB free to team up with a Mr. WEST.

[Jellylegs]

Dean,

I have searched the 1871 census for Ann/Annie/Maria WEBB/WEST/OSBORN born around 1862, but haven't found anything that looks as though it could be your Annie Maria. I wonder where she could be?

[Kerrywood]

I have searched the 1871 census for Ann/Annie/Maria WEBB/WEST/OSBORN born around 1862, but haven't found anything that looks as though it could be your Annie Maria. I wonder where she could be?

Jellylegs, could she be this one?

1871 census
RG10/749 folio 15 page 26
13 Nicholas Street, St Paul Deptford
Ann Webb Head W 65 Laundress born Kent Deptford
Ann Webb Gd Daur 8 born Kent Deptford

(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

[Kerrywood]

There's a candidate for William WEST the lighterman in Greenwich in 1871, though married to someone else.

1871 census
RG10/784 foliio 60 page 2
4 Parsons Hill, Woolwich
William West Head 30 Waterman born Kent Woolwich
Ann West Married 32 born Edenbridge Kent
Annie Elizabeth West Daur 3 born Kent Woolwich
Sarah West Daur 2 born Kent Woolwich
Ellen Jane West Daur 3 mo born Kent Woolwich

In 1881 he is a Lighterman Master, living in Erith
RG11/863 foliio 69 page 33

(records held by TNA, Crown copyright).

[Jellylegs]

Jellylegs, could she be this one?

Originally Posted by Kerrywood
1871 census
RG10/749 folio 15 page 26
13 Nicholas Street, St Paul Deptford
Ann Webb Head W 65 Laundress born Kent Deptford
Ann Webb Gd Daur 8 born Kent Deptford

(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

Yes, Kerrywood. That is her - I have to admit, when I read it on your original post, as the surname was WEBB I had it in my mind that it was Caroline