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  1. #1
    sueannbowen
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    Default Grrr This is driving me Crazy.......

    .......so it should possibly be in Brickwalls. I posted some long while ago about Markham and Retford and so on and got some useful stuff back (as always). But, does any guru know whether there is any way of finding out whether George Simpson, who married Ann Jackson on 26 December 1815 (NFHS) and who probably (possibly) went on to have his children William (10. Jan 1818) and Hannah (29.04.1820) courtesy of the IGI was associated in any way with a pub?

    I think that after having these children they went on to live in Newark where has was described as a tapkeeper (H0107; 868;5;3) and then as an ostler on his death certificate. But I cannot find anything to substantiate this wild theory. Talk about ramming a square peg in a round hole. 'My' George had a William circa 1819 who died in 1859 (the cad) from TB in Westminster. On willy's marriage cert his father's occupation is given as Publican. His wife dad is marked as deceased. The George I am looking at died in 1849 after being kicked by his mare.

    Can anyone tell me why we do this? Sometimes it is like sticking needles in your eyes. If (in the unlikely event) that this George is mine, I am only bringing trouble on myself because in the 1841 he was not of county. AAAAArggghhh.

  2. #2
    Geoffers
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    Quote Originally Posted by sueannbowen
    But, does any guru know whether there is any way of finding out whether George Simpson.......who probably (possibly) went on to have his children William (10. Jan 1818) and Hannah (29.04.1820) courtesy of the IGI was associated in any way with a pub?
    Parish registers record the occupation of the father.

    Is he recorded in any early directories as a publican?


    Can anyone tell me why we do this?
    Just your simple, basic everyday masochism.

  3. #3
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Sue, might your George have run a beer house or similar from a room (or window) in his own house? I've read of a few in early years & they didn't seem to warrant notice as a Publican as such, unless they actuall operated from a 'public house'
    There's even one in my connected Family. Took years to find his location.

    Sometimes it is like sticking needles in your eyes
    Is this another hobby of yourn?
    Happy Families
    Wendy
    Count your Blessings, they'll all add up in the end.

  4. #4
    sueannbowen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffers View Post
    Parish registers record the occupation of the father.
    An operative at the archive office said they did not so off to SoG tout suite


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffers View Post
    Is he recorded in any early directories as a publican?
    Hmmm, have to own up here. The original project brief which I submitted to the relevant record office (quite a long way from Ramsgate) was rubbish in that it referred to Nottingham all the way through and omitted to mention the possibility of a shire bit. Silly moo - will need to revisit that bit of research with them. I was working on the basis that whatever I paid them ( v v reasonable) was much cheaper than hieing off to Nottingham with 2 dogs and an other half and needing to stay ovenight. Good plan except that the project brief needed more work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffers View Post
    Just your simple, basic everyday masochism.
    This is very true - why on earth would a responsible person want to prove a link to a person who was born in this county Y or N = N and who popped off before 1851?

    Thank you for listening Geoffers.

  5. #5
    sueannbowen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waitabit View Post
    Sue, might your George have run a beer house or similar from a room (or window) in his own house? I've read of a few in early years & they didn't seem to warrant notice as a Publican as such, unless they actuall operated from a 'public house'
    There's even one in my connected Family. Took years to find his location.
    Is this another hobby of yourn?
    Well - all I have is a marriage certificate - his son's and George seemed to be alive then (1842) and 2 census entries. The first in 1841 the son William was living in London on his own (not of this county) and the second, with the tantalising note that he was born in Nottinghamshire. So, that is all.

    As for the hobbies - this does seem to be as Geoffers said masochistic from time to time!!!

  6. #6
    BeeE586
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    Nottinghamshire does run a very sensible system of having fiche of registers available in Libraries around the county. The staff at Retford are extremely helpful - you could try an e-mail to them and possibly also to Newark. In the past I have researched in both places.

    Eileen

  7. #7
    sueannbowen
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeE586 View Post
    Nottinghamshire does run a very sensible system of having fiche of registers available in Libraries around the county. The staff at Retford are extremely helpful - you could try an e-mail to them and possibly also to Newark. In the past I have researched in both places.

    Eileen
    Dear Eileen, done! Thanks v m. the thing is, the researcher at the archive checked the NFHS CDs (which I have myself) and they do not give occupations. Fingers crossed.

  8. #8
    Geoffers
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sueannbowen
    An operative at the archive office said they did not so off to SoG tout suite
    The parish registers from 1813 were tabulated and required the cleric to fill in certain specific details. These being:

    When baptised:
    Child's Christian name
    Parents names - Christian and Surname
    Abode
    Quality, Trade or Profession
    By whom the ceremony was performed

    If you are very lucky, you may end up using a register where the cleric has included additional detail. These are the exceptions rather than the rule and the additional detail included does vary (perhaps a date of birth, a mother's maiden name, sometimes some gossip).

    will need to revisit that bit of research with them.
    You may find it cheaper still to:

    1. Check historicaldirectories.org web-site to see if they have anything very early available
    2. Check GENUKI in case there are any directory transcripts there
    3. Check the nearest large reference library to you, they may have directories from all over the place
    4. Rather than pay-someone to check and never be sure that they've done exactly what you want. Why not but the odd directory on CD from The Parish Chest you then have the directory to hand and can use it any time you wish to check and recheck information.

    As Wendy has mentioned, your chap may have just had a beerhouse (very popular) and so little record may be found - but if you don't look, you never find out.

    Good luck with your masochistic urges.

  9. #9
    sueannbowen
    Guest

    Default

    Thanks very much Geoffers. There are lots of options then. Interestingly on revisiting the report it seems that the marriage check was done using the NFHS CDs (which I bought years ago from the Parish Chest) rather than the register fiche! Ho hum - if I had realised that a record office would use a transcript and not check back to the originals (there were only 3 possible marriages), I would have been a bit more specific. Still, the point of this is not to criticise them for my failings, but it is a lesson learned.

    Once more into the fray!

  10. #10
    janbooth
    Guest

    Default

    Hi Sue,

    My Notts FHS Baptismal Index CD does give occupations. Looking at the 1841 census record for George & Ann SIMPSON, it shows his occupation as Tap Keeper as you say, but on the Baptismal Index record of son Edward's baptism on 22 October 1834 and son Henry's baptism on 17 September 1826 at Newark, it shows George's occupation as Labourer. When daughter Fanny was baptised on 30 August 1831 and son Frederick was baptised on 23 March 1829 at Newark, George is recorded as an Ostler. Sounds as if he could have brewed his own and sold it from his house.

    There is also another child George baptised at Newark on 25 February 1824 at Newark, parents George & Ann SIMPSON, Labourer.

    There are several other SIMPSONs having children in Newark around the same time, including a John & Ann. There is a John & Ann SIMPSON in the 1851 census of Newark who is described as a Publican Inn Keeper and who was born c1797 at Wadworth, Yorkshire. Could he perhaps be related to your George - a long shot I know but maybe worth considering.

    Have you looked at the actual parish record of George & Ann's marriage and if so, does it give any clues, e.g. where George was from, witness names, etc.

    Not sure if this is too much help, but may give you some other ideas.

    Janet

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