Cooper Family Censuses

[ewan]

On the 1881 census I have the following family, I am trying to find them on the 1871 census, 1891 and 1901 cenuses also. Isaac was 89 on the 1881 census so he may not be around for the 1891 census. Can anyone help perhaps locate the 2 girls on earlier censuses, I am also trying to establish were they sisters or related some other way.

RG 11 1179 62 22 Ryde Isle of Wight

All 3 were born on the Isle of Wight - Isaac 1792, Phoebe 1848 and Alice 1865

Many thanks
Ewan

[Tolly]

1871 census: isaac (1792 freshwater) with sarah, wife, (1798 ryde) living in ryde, east ward. #4 cottays (spelling?) house. occupation: blacksmith

more to follow... hopefully!
re: isaac not being around by the 1891 census: freebmd has Isaac Cooper's death dec qtr 1885 (isle of wight)
paul

[Geoffers]

You will need the birth certificate (or at the least a baptism) for Alice to confirm it; but you might have a look at RG10/1166 f126 p11 in the Eclipse PH in Ryde (reference to census in care of TNA) - Alice COOPER aged 7, with parents Frederick and Sarah and a sister Lucy.

Edit - see post 5 for a correction to this,

[Tolly]

in 1861 isaac and sarah are in ryde with 2 grandsons: charles (1842) and william (1847) ref TNA Class: RG9; Piece: 658; Folio: 11; Page: 18;

and .... freebmd has possible marriage for phoebe cooper: dec qtr 1865 to samuel clark (IoW)

[Geoffers]

Regarding post no.3 I think I had the wrong entry when looking at other census returns.

This is more likely............

Searching the 1871 census for - Phoebe, aged 23 +/- 3 years in Ryde comes back with 1 entry.

RG10/1165 f101 p24
9, St.John's Place, Ryde
Phoebe REED, hd, mar, 23, seamstress, bn Ryde
Eliza A Reed, dau, 5, scholar, bn Ryde
Emily A COOPER, sister, 8, scholar, bn Ryde
Thomas Kay, boarder, unm, 26, Royal Artillery, bn Ryde.

Was the daughter Eliza A(lice)?

A Phoebe COOPER appears in 1861 at RG9/658 f80 p37 and
in 1851 at HO107/1664 f45 p21
(references are to census in care of TNA).

In 1851 Phoebe COOPER is shown as the daughter of William COOPER bn 1825
The 1841 census shows a William Cooper bn c.1825 as the son of Isaac bn 1792 (see HO107/406/9 f10 p14) who matches your 1881 census.

[Tolly]

ahhh phoebe cooper 1861 census.... if you havent already the info!!

a servant at the albion inn, newport road, ryde. owner: JW Stratton. tna ref Class: RG9; Piece: 658; Folio: 80; Page: 37

paul

[Geoffers]

RG10/1165 f101 p24
9, St.John's Place, Ryde
Phoebe REED, hd, mar, 23, seamstress, bn Ryde
Eliza A Reed, dau, 5, scholar, bn Ryde

GRO marriage index entries exists for Dec 1865, Isle of Wight, Vol.2b Page 1018 for Phoebe Sarah COOPER and George Adolphus REED.

George Adolphus Reed may have been born on the IoW in June quarter 1844

[Tolly]

hmm ok so i guess freebmd gave me the right time and phoebe but wrong spouse name .... !!

[Geoffers]

Looking further at George Adolphus REED, he appears to have married a second time Dec quarter 1885 in the Isle of Wight to Harriett BALL and turns up easily in the 1911 census

I have a sneaking suspicion that Alice married in June 1884 as Alice Eliza COOPER to Henry William SCOVELL - the suspicion is not diminished by the name of the eldest daughter in RG14/5727 SN269 (census in care of TNA); also see the name of the boarder.

Also, in 1901 see RG13/1026 f17 p26 2 Harding Road, Oakfield, St.Helens, IoW
Henry SCOVELL, hd, mar, 40, brickyard manager, bn Ryde
Alice, wf, 34, laundress
children - George 14, Phoebe 12, Henry 8, Arthur 5
and - Emily REED 18, Harry REED 16, described as sister and brother (presumably of Alice)

If all that is correct, then Alice in 1891 can be found at RG12/892 f96 p24

In 1891 Alice's mum appears to be described as Phoebe REED and a widow at RG12/890 f77 p18 in Ryde. Note that there are two children, Emily 8 and Harry 6

So, on the face of it Isaac COOPER was the father of William. William was the father of Phoebe COOPER who married George Adolphus REED in 1865, they had several children including Alice (Eliza) REED; and George appears to have abandoned his wife at least once (1881?) and possibly twice - he married Harriett BALL about the time his son Harry was born. There is no trace of a divorce in TNA's catalogue. Phoebe in 1891 was claiming to be a widow.

Of course this is just what seems to fit at the moment, it may be wrong and you will need to carefully double check everything to eliminate possible errors in the above preliminary findings.

[Geoffers]

One possible last twist to this, there is a marriage in GRO index:

Sep 1894 REED, Phoebe Sarah - Isle of Wight Vol.2b Page 1163

corresponding entries exist for
Richard William FRASER
William COWLE

This may, or may not be the Phoebe who described herself as a widow in 1891.