MIDDLE NAMES SHOULD BE BANNED!

**Dargie** · 03-12-2010, 8:51 PM

I had also thought of the possibility, Nicolina, that Ellen may have been born before the marriage but like you could not find anything to help.

I think you are right. I will wait for your cousin's kind offer and practice some patience to see what eventuates.

In the meantime I will try some more lateral thinking and if I come up with anything I will add it to the thread.
Again many thanks to everyone for their great help and interest.

Maybe it is not middle names which should be banned but the name "Ellen" !!!!

**Dargie** · 03-12-2010, 9:53 PM

Originally Posted by Nicolina

unfortunately very few Suffolk records are online and there is no way that I can get back down there before next year. I had discussed going down for Christmas but what with this terrible weather and my husband's hospital appointments we're having to spend Christmas stuck here.
Would you believe it but I've found another ROPER family, on the 1861 Census with 2 daughters called Ellen!!!!!!
RG09/1146/11 Page 16
High Road, Great Finborough
John aged 32 b. Great Finborough, Suffolk occ: Agricultural Labourer
Sophia aged 31 b. Old Newton, Suffolk
William aged 8 b. Great Finborough, Suffolk
Ellen aged 5 b. Great Finborough, Suffolk
John aged 6 b. Great Finborough, Suffolk
Ellen aged 1 b. Great Finborough, Suffolk

what is it with this lot?

Before I leave I thought you may like to know that I have another family in Great Finborough.
1861 Robert ROPER his wife the lovely Mary Ann son Walter and.......daughter ELLEN born approx 1856!

In 1881 Walter is married and living with his wife .........ELLEN who was born in Buxhall. They are living next door to Charles Bird and his aforrementioned wife...ELLEN

Next door again is the father BIRD . If I find that Joseph BIRD who married our original Sophia ELLEN Mathilda was born in Great Finborough there is a web of intrigue. Inbred families in abundance!

Here's to all the ELLENS wherever you are..I

Nicolina · 03-12-2010, 11:13 PM

in 1891 there is a Charles BIRD born Great Finborough about 1853, living with his wife - wait for it - ELLEN born Great Finborough about 1854 (RG12/456/11 Page 16) at Cottage Near School, Combs Road, Great Finborough (notice the name of the road?)
Also living there are children:
Beatrice M. b. abt. 1883
Ernest W. b. abt. 1886
Robert S. b. abt. 1888
all Great Finborough

living with them is a Lodger ROBERT ROPER born about 1868, born Great Finborough.

how's that?
I need a drink

**Dargie** · 04-12-2010, 2:00 AM

Oh NO!!

I think I will just wait until I get that help from your kind cousin. These people are all neighbours, obviously intermarried and most frustrating.

Wouldn't it have been loads of fun, in 1871, to stand in the centre of the Great Finborough village and shout ""ELLEN" What a crowd would appear! Some may even race the 6 miles form Combs to answer the call!

(The ELLEN gathering!)
Cheers and many thanks again to everyone.
Marj.

**valg** · 04-12-2010, 5:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dargie

Time to ask the experts for help!
I have a definate case of "Free BMD" burnout.

This family is a fairly far flung twig on my tree so therefore the purchase of certificates is not really affordable but it has presented me with a situation I can not solve.

Starting with the family of William Airey ROPER born 1844 Stowmarket, SUFFOLK and wife Jane DENT born SUFFOLK Stowupland about 1843

The following lists are Crown Copyright TNA

1871 RG10/1734/28/26

We have William Jane and children Ellen born abt 1864 Combs, near Stowmarket, Suffolk JOhn born about 1865 Combs and Eliza born about 1867 Combs.

In 1881 RG 11/1851/31/3

We have Jane (no sign of William anywhere that I can find although he turns up agin in 1891 so probably away at work.) Ann aged 13 (now who is she I wonder) Frederick 6 and Ellen 4. What another Ellen how strange as I cannot find any death or marriage for the first Ellen.

In 1891 RG 12/1456/27/4

We have Jane, William and Frederick and Ellen NO 2

In 1901 Jane is a widow and living with her mother in law.

No birth reg can be found for the first Ellen. There is a Laura Ellen born Stowmarket district in June 1865 a possible candidate who could have seriously disliked the name Laura.

There is no listing for an Eliza in the family as listed in 1871 BUT on further checking there is Ann Eliza born Dec qtr 1867 who must have decided she seriously disliked the name Ann, loved Eliza but then changed her mind and wanted it back.

Now the real problem starts

In 1901 Ann (or Eliza depending on what day it is) is married to Spencer Braybrook COOK and has two children.
Visiting her is her sister Ellen BIRD aged 24 with a child Dorothy aged 2. (Therefore possibly a marriage in the late 1890's. Dorothy was born in Hornsey SURREY.

Now the only marriage I can find for an Ellen ROPER and a BIRD is in 1881 Stowmarket. ???? IS it possible that Ellen could have been married at age 4!!

This must surely be her sister Laura Ellen ROPER who used her middle name as name at marriage. BUT I cannot find any death for her or any other appropriate marriage for sister Ellen. The only one I can find took place in Cardiff whch I feel to be highly improbable.

I know a marriage certificate would either confirm or cancel this possiblity but wondering if someone out there has a suggestion or discovery to help out.

Marjorie Edith (known as Marjorie

)

London Births and Baptisms 1813-1906
Frederick Albert Roper
Baptised 20 Feb 1876
St Columba-Haggerston-Hackney
Parents Jane and William Airey Roper
Abode-12 Essex Street.