Father Unknown

[gcherry]

Hi guys
Status on this forum now 1/2, thank you
I am on a roll so I shall try my third brickwall
I have a great, great grandfather Matthew Valentine born 15 10 1884 at 54 John Street, Tonge with Haulgh
My problem is the father field is left blank as is the fathers occupation field on his birth certificate
He was born, married and died with his mothers name
I am hoping to get some idea as to a father
I am hoping that a baptism record may show a name (I know, a long shot)
His mother Betsey married 6 years later at the Parish Church, Bolton. Her parents James and Susanah also married at the Parish Church

I have googled Parish Church, Bolton and came up with this

=================================
Archives of Bolton Parish Church
Parish Church of St Peter, Bolton-le-Moors
The archives of the Church have been deposited with the following library:
Manchester Local Studies Archive Service
Central Library
St Peter's Square
Manchester
M2 5PD
===================================

I am a long way from St. peters square, like 14,000 miles, is it possible that someone may be going there and can look up the baptism records for me
I know the library is currently closed, I may be able to go from 1/3 to 3/3 when it reopens and find someone to help with a look up

regards
Glen

[RonOne]

Hi Glen,

(Source: Lancashire Online Parish Clerk)
Baptisms: 26 Nov 1884 Holy Trinity, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Matthew Valentine - Son of John Valentine & Martha
Abode: Back Foundry St.
Occupation: Spindle & Fly Maker
Baptised by: S.T.Williamson
Register: Baptisms 1884 - 1890, Page 44, Entry 348
Source: LDS Film 1966124

The only birth I can see on FreeBMD which matches this christening is:
Births Dec 1884
Valentine Matthew - Bolton 8c 380

[ET in the USA]

Have you found Matthew on any census records ? Is that him shown as Matthew V. Holden age 16 in 1901 ? What about 1891 - he does not seem to be with Mum & 'Dad' if I found the correct family. Only other person in household is Mary Ann age 63 Boarder - very likely Richard's mother or Aunt ?

ET

[RonOne]

St Peter, Bolton and Holy Trinity, Bolton are about half a mile apart.
See this link: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Bolton/

[gcherry]

Have you found Matthew on any census records ? Is that him shown as Matthew V. Holden age 16 in 1901 ? What about 1891 - he does not seem to be with Mum & 'Dad' if I found the correct family. Only other person in household is Mary Ann age 63 Boarder - very likely Richard's mother or Aunt ?

ET

Hi ET

Thank you for your interest
It is him in the 1901 census, he is shown as Matthew V Holden, both him and his mother have the initial V
His mother Betsey married Richard Holden in 1890, her first marriage I am sure, she married as Betsey Valentine
His first wife died years earlier in 1972

Obviously he may have been the father, I am looking for something that may lead us that way
I tend to think that if he was there would not have been any reason for Betsey not to name him on the birth certificate as by 1884 he was a widow
Unless of course he was in a relationship with someone else
Of course on the other hand, at the far other end of the scale, she may not have known the father

It is not him in the 1901 census, in this census he was at his grandfather James Valentines house
I have not yet found him in the 1911 census
He married in 1912 as Matthew Valentine

regards
Glen

[gcherry]

Hi Glen,

(Source: Lancashire Online Parish Clerk)
Baptisms: 26 Nov 1884 Holy Trinity, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Matthew Valentine - Son of John Valentine & Martha
Abode: Back Foundry St.
Occupation: Spindle & Fly Maker
Baptised by: S.T.Williamson
Register: Baptisms 1884 - 1890, Page 44, Entry 348
Source: LDS Film 1966124

The only birth I can see on FreeBMD which matches this christening is:
Births Dec 1884
Valentine Matthew - Bolton 8c 380

Hi Ronone
Thank you for your help
I do not beieve this is my Matthew, though it needs some more investigation, There was no John or Martha in the near family
It is somewhat of a coincidence though, a christening for a Matthew Valentine, 6 weeks after my Matthew was born
I thought maybe John and Martha had died and Betsey had taken over, though I have a birth certificate for him (the one you have found)
I will search the 1891 and 1901 census and I believe I will more than likely find this Matthew living with John and Martha

Thank you also for the website I did not know of it
It may prove of use in my research

regards
Glen

[Keyboard86]

Hi just to help out here is 1911:-

Matthew Valentine Boarder with The Cunningham family shown born Tong Fold Bolton

Residing at 18, Hind Street Bolton

Census ref RG14PN23358 RG78PN1363 SN103

Census Ref courtesy and copyright TNA

Keyboard86

[gcherry]

Hi just to help out here is 1911:-

Matthew Valentine Boarder with The Cunningham family shown born Tong Fold Bolton

Residing at 18, Hind Street Bolton

Census ref RG14PN23358 RG78PN1363 SN103

Census Ref courtesy and copyright TNA

Keyboard86

Hi Keyboard86
Thank you for your information
Could you please tell me the details of the members of the Cunningham family
He as living there in August 1912 when he married
One of Matthews daughters married a John Cunningham some 30 years later
There was no other Cunninghams in the family that I am aware of
regards
Glen

[Keyboard86]

No problem:-

James Cunningham Head 48 occ Coal Hewer born Breighthnet Lancs
Nancy Wife 50 born Tong Fold Bolton
James Son 24 born Tong Fold Bolton

On original the couple state they have been married 28 years and have had 2 ?? Children both alive.

I believe her real name is Agnes!!

Keyboard86

[ET in the USA]

... they have been married 28 years and have had 2 ?? Children both alive.

I believe her real name is Agnes!!

Keyboard86

Not sure why he thinks that. In Jun 1883, there is a marriage with the following in Bolton 8c 440
James Cunningham
Daniel Haslam
Nancy Valentine
Mary Sharples.

Doesn't it make sense that Nancy Valentine was somehow related to Betsy & therefore Matthew ?
ET