Gaythorne Henry Smith b. 1870 Lambeth, Surrey

[LizzieB]

After many hours to-ing and fro-ing, I need help. Have the 1871 census for Gaythorne with parents Peter and Elizabeth, missing in the 1881, have the 1891 where his father is a widower and living Camberwell and Gaythorne is a commercial traveller. Married a Martha Steynor 1892, 2 children Reginald F S b. 1895 Peckham and Gladys E b. 1900 Peckham. In the 1901 census he is a paraffin lamp mnfr. as was his father and was living 46 Commerial Road, Camberwell. Can't find any of the above 1911 census or deaths for Gaythorne or Martha. He re-married 1914 a Kathleen Ragan in Sheffield. Surely must be him with 'that' name. One known child Gaythorne Hedley Smith b. Yorkshire 1916. A death for Kathleen Smith appears in the London times so they must have moved back to London at some stage. In anticipation of any responses and help ...... Thank you.

[AdeleE]

Death reigstration:

Name: Gaythorne H Smith
Death Registration Year: 1948
Age at death (est): 78
Registration district: Camberwell
Volume 5c, Page 295

A death for Martha will be a little more difficult to find.

[AdeleE]

On the 1911 census, the family is at "Ivydene" 56 Glenwood Road, Catford S E, Lewisham, London (RG14 PN2794 SN101 census Crown copyright in care of TNA).

There are two more children: 9 year old Stanley John & 7 year old Winifred Martha.

[LizzieB]

Thank you once again Adele. You were great with my Beatrice Mary Virtue doing a runner (to Canada) query. You know, after getting your results, I tried the 1911 census again for both he and Martha with no result. It was only having the children's names that enabled me to access it. Martha is of no great importance to my tree although I did go thru Free BMD's deaths quarter by quarter, 1911 to 1914 for London with no delight also a possible re-marriage for her although I doubt they divorced, it being a very lengthy process then. There is only one other tree for Gaythorne with very, very little on it. So I think that's it for Gaythorne for me for now. Regards. Liz

[LizzieB]

Thank you once again Adele. You were great with my Beatrice Mary Virtue doing a runner (to Canada) query. You know, after getting your results, I tried the 1911 census again for both he and Martha with no result. It was only having the children's names that enabled me to access it. Martha is of no great importance to my tree although I did go thru Free BMD's deaths quarter by quarter, 1911 to 1914 for London with no delight also a possible re-marriage for her although I doubt they divorced, it being a very lengthy process then. There is only one other tree for Gaythorne with very, very little on it. So I think that's it for Gaythorne for me for now. Regards. Liz

Ooops it's not over! Thought I'd run this past you 1st Adele before maybe posting to Yorkshire .... Just found military records for a Gaythorne Hedley Smith who enlisted (Yorkshire) in 1914 aged 19 i.e. born 1895! Discharged 22/4/1917. 1914-1915 star awarded 24/4/1920 acknowledged by Mrs K. Smith. On what appears to be his Army pension/death details form it states children Edna May Smith 1914 and Gaythorne Hedley Smith 1916, all living 44 Eleanor St., Attercliff. Dated at Sheffield 14 August 1919. I (once again) cannot find a birth or death for this Gaythorne Hedley b. abt 1895, d. abt 1919. So it appears that Kathleen Ragan did not marry the Londoner Gaythorne Henry (he would have been 26 years her senior) and the death for Kathleen Smith in the London Times was coincidental both having the same birth year. I have the above children as Gaythorne Henry and Kathleen Smiths kids. Wwrrong. There must be a birth and a death for this bloke, certainly a death, as his short service papers have "dead" scrawled over them. This Gaythorne Hedley also was a miner (his occ. on his enlistment papers), also says married, yes, to Kathleen Ragan and his mother quoted as Elizabeth, father James. It also lists all full blood brothers and sisters and their respective addresses. One of the Army papers actually says Gaythorne Hedley Smith, the others Gaythorne H or G. H. What a doozy!!! Think I need to go to bed and read a book to calm down. Look forward to your opinion. Kind regards ...Liz

[AdeleE]

I (once again) cannot find a birth or death for this Gaythorne Hedley b. abt 1895, d. abt 1919.

Hi Liz,

I remember the Beatrice Mary Virtue problem. That was fun!

Here's a birth registration from the Ancestry BMD index, note misspelling:

Name: Gathorne Hedley Smith
Year: 1894
Quarter: Dec
District: Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 740

My brain's still a littly foggy here this morning. What connection are you looking for between Gaythorne Henry and Gaythorne Hedley?

[LizzieB]

Believe me Adele, it's a barrel of laughs around here most of the time!!!! Well, well, you came up with the goods again. Terrific. I'm having breakfast at the computer. Had a rotten night with Gaythorne in my head. This is most certainly the Gaythorne that married Kathleen Ragan. The one I want. Even with that name I'd say there's absolutely no connection at all between the 2 Gaythorne's, and I wasn't looking for one, just the right one for my tree. And if I hadn't found those military records Gaythorne Henry would probably have stayed on the tree until another researcher for him questioned it. Now all the fun of erasing Gaythorne Henry and his family from the tree. Thanks again Adele ..... Liz

[LizzieB]

Hi Adele, Bingo ......Got the 1901 and 1911 for Gaythorne Hedley. Just how many ways can you spell Gaythorne? After deciphering some of his brothers names on the military records .... got 'im. The 1901 census has him as, what a classic, Gay Kim for God's sake. Apart from seeing if I can find if Kathleen married again as she would have only been in her 20's, I think we can certainly call this case closed. Watch out chocolate here I come. Thank you and you have a lovely day. Liz

[pete1364]

After many hours to-ing and fro-ing, I need help. Have the 1871 census for Gaythorne with parents Peter and Elizabeth, missing in the 1881, have the 1891 where his father is a widower and living Camberwell and Gaythorne is a commercial traveller. Married a Martha Steynor 1892, 2 children Reginald F S b. 1895 Peckham and Gladys E b. 1900 Peckham. In the 1901 census he is a paraffin lamp mnfr. as was his father and was living 46 Commerial Road, Camberwell. Can't find any of the above 1911 census or deaths for Gaythorne or Martha. He re-married 1914 a Kathleen Ragan in Sheffield. Surely must be him with 'that' name. One known child Gaythorne Hedley Smith b. Yorkshire 1916. A death for Kathleen Smith appears in the London times so they must have moved back to London at some stage. In anticipation of any responses and help ...... Thank you.

Have just been sorting through my late fathers belongings, he was Gaythorne Henry's great nephew, Stanley Smith was his great uncle, and have come across an invoice dated 1919 from his shop on the Commercial Road. I also have a silver canteen of cutlery presented to Gaythorne in 1925. I would be interested to talk to you further, best wishes Pete

[LizzieB]

Hello Pete, If you read again all the replies to my original post you will see that I originally mistakenly connected a Gaythorne Henry Smith with Kathleen Ragan. This misinformation was quickly corrected on my tree several years ago. Kathleen married a Gaythorne Hedley Smith whose parents were James and Elizabeth. Gaythorne Hedley Smith died 1917 just a few years after his marriage and discharge from the army after his enlistment in 1914. They did have a child also named Gaythorne Hedley. Gaythorne snr.'s occ. was miner. I would very much like to say we are connected but we are not. If you are new to research you will find plenty of help right here with B-G. With all best wishes ...... Lizzie