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  1. #1
    Sheena O'Fee
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    Default can anyone help with my brick wall please

    Wondering if anyone can shed some light on my brick wall

    I have Edward Jones on an old army book it has the following;

    Royal Artillery enlisted 7th may 1858 age 21yrs 4days which makes his DOB 3rd May 1837, Dudley Wolverhampton

    his father was John Jones siblings William and Joseph no mention of mother.

    I can't find him on 1851 census or any other census

    he married Margaret Sutherland in Leith, Midlothian in 7 jan1859 I have copy of certificate states his parents are both dead mothers name unclear.
    they had 8 children all born in different places as it looks like he moved around with the army etc

    Edward 02/08/1860 Leith
    Alfred James 29/04/1863 Shorncliffe
    Robert William 08/12/1865 Hillsea
    John Stanley 08/12/1865 Hillsea
    Charles 10/07/1867 Waterford
    Emily Jane 26/07/1869 Fermoy ??
    John Stewart 09/10/1870 ??
    Agnes 17/02/1874 Bangaloher (India)

    I cant find Edwards birth certificate nor death certificate he was deceased on sons marriage cert in 1885

    if anyone can help with ANYTHING regarding this family I'd be most grateful for any suggestions etc

    many thanks
    Sheena

  2. #2
    birdlip
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    Hi Sheena,

    unfortunately if Edwards dob is May 1837, he is just a bit too early for a birth certificate, you'll need to look at Parish records for his baptism.

    I had a quick look on IGI and couldn't see a likely record for Edward, but I did see this;

    Joseph JONES b 25 Sep 1835, ch 13 Mar 1836 St Thomas, Dudley Worcester. Parents John JONES and Levinia. [Batch C040145]

    A possibility for one of his brothers?

  3. #3
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    In 1861a similar family is in Scotland.
    I went in with Edward the child's name and it came up but the reason you probably couldn't find Edward senior is because it was spelt EAWARD.
    They live at 8 Annfield Street ,North Leith in Scotland.
    The Sottish census will not show the original but it does list Edward as with Bombardier Artillery.
    Not sure how to list the scottish reference numbers ( ED 15 Page 3 LIne 6) but if you look under Eaward born 1824 (which is completely different from 1937 so maybe the wrong man)in England you will find the family.
    Eliza is listed as born England also. But why is she called Eliza and not Margaret? Did she have a second name? Or is Eliza a second wife?
    Edward the baby is born Leith 1860 which matches your record.
    A coincidence?

  4. #4
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    Default Edward Junior

    1881
    There is an Edward JONES born 1861 North Leith living with grandparents and Uncle.
    James Sunderland 78 Market Gardner born Orkney
    Barbara Sunderland 67 born Orkney
    Charles 22 labourer in ship building yard born Leith
    Edward 20 Van Man born Leith, Edinburgh
    Living at 5 Bathfield North Leith, Edinburgh

    It looks as if the family were living in India in 1871 judging by birth places of younger children.

    Could the mother's name which was unclear be Barbara, as above?

  5. #5
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    Sorry..make that James and Barbara SUTHERLAND, my error and I also see that the mothers name which was unclear was James' mother.
    Time for me to stop!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheena O'Fee View Post
    Wondering if anyone can shed some light on my brick wall

    I have Edward Jones on an old army book it has the following;

    Royal Artillery enlisted 7th may 1858 age 21yrs 4days which makes his DOB 3rd May 1837, Dudley Wolverhampton


    I cant find Edwards birth certificate nor death certificate he was deceased on sons marriage cert in 1885
    Hi Sheena,
    Make 'he was deceased on sons marriage cert in 1885' into 'his son says he was deceased'.
    I think most of us can give instances of fathers being alive when allegedly dead, and vice versa. Plus father's names being actually those of grandfather, stepfather, or just plain fictitious.
    The major problem of course is that Edward could have died in India - or anywhere else abroad that the army sent him. Have you been able to trace any of the family in later census? (I'm not familiar with Scottish stuff, so I'm not going to volunteer.)
    Pam

  7. #7
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dargie View Post
    Sorry..make that James and Barbara SUTHERLAND, my error and I also see that the mothers name which was unclear was James' mother.
    Time for me to stop!
    Dargie,
    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. (Brain not yet in gear.)
    But, if you mean that the entry on the 1881 census which you originally transcribed as Sunderland is actually James Sutherland , then you may have found the correct Edwin, as his father Edward married Margaret Sutherland.

    (I'm still lost on the bit about 'James' mother' though! )
    Pam
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 26-03-2010 at 8:28 AM. Reason: Added final sentence

  8. #8
    birdlip
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdlip View Post
    Hi Sheena,

    unfortunately if Edwards dob is May 1837, he is just a bit too early for a birth certificate, you'll need to look at Parish records for his baptism.

    I had a quick look on IGI and couldn't see a likely record for Edward, but I did see this;

    Joseph JONES b 25 Sep 1835, ch 13 Mar 1836 St Thomas, Dudley Worcester. Parents John JONES and Levinia. [Batch C040145]

    A possibility for one of his brothers?
    Oh dear! I've had more of a look at that Batch Number ( St Thomas, Dudley, Worcester 1834-1841) and there is;

    William JONES ch 1836 (parents John JONES and Harriet) and
    William JONES c 1838 (parents John JONES and Agnes)

    During that same time frame, besides John JONES and Levinia (sic) , there's also

    John JONES and Elizabeth,
    John JONES and Hannah (2 of them I think!),
    John JONES and Ann, and
    John JONES and Mary!

    No Edwards in sight though....

    I'm still hoping, for your sake, that John JONES and Levinia is the couple you're looking for, simply because its a more unusual name, and if you're looking for JONES, it could be a big help.

    You say the mothers name is unclear, but do any of the above names look like possibilities?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Dargie,
    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. (Brain not yet in gear.)
    But, if you mean that the entry on the 1881 census which you originally transcribed as Sunderland is actually James Sutherland , then you may have found the correct Edwin, as his father Edward married Margaret Sutherland.

    (I'm still lost on the bit about 'James' mother' though! )
    Pam
    Spot on...... that is exactly what I was trying to say. I thought I had found their first born son living with the Sutherland grandparents.
    My feeling is that he was living with them whilst the rest of the family was in India.
    Possibly Edward Senior died in India therefore difficult to trace. I have never had any luck in India!!

    I am not too sure what you don't understand about the mother.
    This what I meant .... I did not obviously look back at the original thread properly for which mother's name was unclear. I thought I had found it in Barbara but then realized it was James' mother's name which was unclear not Margaret's mother.

    If my posts are that difficult to understand it is time I left it to the wide awake UK folk and toddled off to bed.

  10. #10
    birdlip
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dargie View Post

    I am not too sure what you don't understand about the mother.
    This what I meant .... I did not obviously look back at the original thread properly for which mother's name was unclear. I thought I had found it in Barbara but then realized it was James' mother's name which was unclear not Margaret's mother.

    If my posts are that difficult to understand it is time I left it to the wide awake UK folk and toddled off to bed.
    Aaaargh! I'm confused too! Isn't it Edward's mother who's name is unclear?

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