Loveridge/Sibthorpe

[richardstree]

Hi Richardstree, sorry if you feel you are being ignored, but I don't know what to say. I cannot link 'your' Albert to the Thomas and Elizabeth we've found on census returns. He's not with Thomas and Elizabeth in 1911, though there is a Robert aged 10? Why do you think Albert is Mary Ann's brother? Albert could be the son of the other Thomas who was living in Deptford at the time Albert was born, see posts 61 and 64 on this thread.

I have been in contact with Joc with a couple of PMs, also sent a photograph of a family wedding.

When Jocs mum looked at the photo she picked out a familiar face as looking like Jimmy Allen. His dad was James Allen who was married to Eliza Banks, Maryann's/Pollys daughter with her 1st husband Benjamin Banks, also my MIL has said that Albert had a brother Jumbo and a Polly in the family.

I know from Alberts marriage cert that his father was Thomas.

Albert has one surviving daughter, she married but never had children. I do believe that she has something that could be useful but its impossible to get any information from her about her family.

I will keep watching from the sidelines and see how things progress.

Keep up the good work.

[richardstree]

Just reread my last post.

I should have said the wedding was of Albert Loveridges daughter.

A witness at the wedding was a James Allen. This is the James/Jimmy Allen that Jocs mum recognised.

Albert along with his wife, Ethel Mary, are on the photograph

[loulou1]

Hi,
hope this will help.
william Loveridge c 1800 married Dorcas Smith C 1800 parents of Elisha Loveridge 1827 married unknown.
They children Adolphus 1852-1933,Benjamin 1861,baltholomew 1862,Joseph 1863,all loveridge.
Adolphus married sophia Boswell (I did find the Boswell family near by cant find the notes at the mo )
THey children were John 1886 married Mercy unkown .Thomas 1872,Thedric 1880,Nelson 1887,Norah 1894,Emily1890,Henry 1897 who married Louisa.
This information came from another persons family tree . This person and myself feel we do have famil y connections but like the rest of us cant put the pieces together.
thank you all for your help ( I know we keep saying this)

[janbooth]

Hi everyone,

William SIBTHORPE's marriage to Mary Ann BANKS does help as it states that Mary Ann's father was Thomas LOVERIDGE, Hawker. That ties in with the Thomas living at Stanhope Street and does give us another connection to that Thomas - much better than her marriage record to Benjamin BANKS wherein she states that father Thomas was a Carpenter.

Could there be two LOVERIDGEs with the name Elias and perhaps a generation apart. If William LOVERIDGE & Dorcas were the parents of an Elias born c1827, then the Elias we have found married to Lasher, Larome or whatever her name is, seems to be a lot younger than Elias born c1827. I know their ages and dates of birth seem to vary in every census record we find, but not normally by that much.

Trying to put all the info we have in some sort of order to try to clarify the situation:

Concentrating on Adolphus & Sophia for the moment, the first baptism that appears on the London Parish Registers is that of Henry (Thedric?) who was born 7 September, baptised 24 October 1880 at Christ Church Deptford son of Adolphus & Sophia, Griffin St, Coalster. By the time of the 1881 census, they are living in Stanhope St with children Thomas & Hendric in the same house as widowed Elia LOVERIDGE, aged 37, Pedlar, born Staffordshire and his children William & Fanny.

By the 1891 census, Adolphus, Sophia & family are living at 50 Hale Street and they are still there in the 1901 census. Elias I cannot find in the 1891 & 1901 census records using both FMP & Ancestry but he reappears in the 1911 census living at 13 Griffin Street and described as a single, 70 year old Hawker born Newport Monmouthshire. Adolphus LOVERIDGE, wife Sophia and daughters Emily & Norah are living at 44 Reginald Rd, Deptford, he being shown as a 57 year old Street Hawker, born West Bromwich, Sophia being shown as 57, born Sheppards Bush - yet 2 more different birthplaces.

Tracing these two families backwards, Elias is in the 1871 census of Hammersmith, aged 33, Basket Maker, born Dudley with wife Lelora, aged 25, born Lester, Norwich and children Joseph 7 born Lincs, Thomas 4 born Barnes, Fanny 3 born Sherborne and Alverdine, son aged 6 months born Sherborne living in Gipsies Tent and end of Alexandra Road. In the 1861 census of Daventry, Northants, Elias, aged 21, Basket Maker, born Stourbridge Staffs and (I think looking very closely at the census image it could be) Loraine S, aged 24, Hawker, born Bilston Staffs are living at Drayton Hamlet with brother in law Hasey? SMITH, aged 25, Tinker, birthplace unknown, his wife Susan, aged 21, born Lincoln, Elson and mother in law Mary SMITH, a widowed 60 year old Hawker, birthplace unknown. From this it looks as if this Elias is born c1840 and married a Loraine? SMITH, born c1837 Elson who had a brother Hasey? and whose mother was Mary. I can't find either Elias or his wife prior to the 1861 census so far nor can I find Adolphus in either the 1871 or 1861 census records .

Hopefully more to follow using your new information.

Janet

[janbooth]

Let's concentrate on Joseph LOVERIDGE born c1863. In the 1871 census of Hammersmith he is living with father Elias, see above.

In the 1891 census, he is living at 12 Hale Street:

Mr LOVEREDGE Head Mar 22 General Labourer Deptford
Mrs do Wife Mar 22 do
Laura do Daur 9 do
Walter do Son 5 do
Arthur do Son 2 do

At least I think this is Joseph & his wife although the ages are totally incorrect, judging by the children and the address which is the same as that given when son William Adolphus is baptised.

He obviously marries an Esther/Hester as from London Parish Register baptisms:

Born 11 Jan, bap 18 Feb 1883 at Christ Church Deptford Manorah LOVERIDGE ? Joseph & Esther, 28 Stanhope Street, Hawker
Baptised 22 November 1885 at St Mary Kilburn Walter Thomas LOVERIDGE son Joseph & Hester, Travelling Van, Labourer
Born 22 Jan, bap 1 March 1891 at Christ Church, Deptford Oscar LOVERAGE son Joseph & Esther, 52 Hale Street, Hawker
Born 3? May, bap 12 June 1895 at Christ Church Deptford William Adolphus LOVERIDGE son Joseph & Esther, 12 Hale Street, Hawker

Joseph, aged 43, Dock Labourer, born Peterborough & Esther, aged 42, born London are still living at 12 Hale Street in the 1901 census with children Laurie aged 18, Oscar aged 9, Edith aged 7 born Old Bexley Kent, Adolphus aged 5, Ada aged 3 born Old Bexley Elizabeth aged 18 months born Deptford & James John aged 6 months born Deptford.

Joseph is living at 6 Bronze St, Deptford in the 1911 census, described as married, 7 children born of whom 5 are still living, with children Edith, Adolphus, Ada, Elizabeth & James. No sign of Esther but Joseph is shown as aged 52, a Costermonger, born Peterborough, Yorks.

Must stop now - it is time for tea but will have another look tomorrow for the other children of Elias/Elisha. However, I don't seem to be able to find any of them prior to the 1861 census record for Elia.

Janet

[janbooth]

I can't find any trace of either Benjamin or Bartholomew LOVERIDGE in the census records or marriages/births records - so I am afraid that looks like a bit of a dead end. Interesting that Adolphus & Sophia had a son Barthy born 25 Feb baptised 25 March 1883 at Christ Church Deptford whilst they were living at 52 Hale Street obviously named after his brother.

John LOVERIDGE son of Adolphus & Sophia married a Maney HEDGES in the December qtr 1905 at Dartford reg district, and they are living at 49 Hale Street according to the 1911 census, he being shown as a 24 year old Hawker, born Deptford. She is shown as married 6 years, aged 23, born Pitsey, Essex and they have a niece Ceila (Celia?) LOVERIDGE aged 15 born Deptford living with them. Needless to say, I can't find Maney in any census records prior to 1911!!

Wait a minute, I may just have something here - looking for Adolphus's son Barthy's marriage registration, I have found a marriage registration in the June qtr 1884 at Dartford reg district, vol 2a, page 715 of a Barthy LOVERIDGE to either a Frances EXTON or an Elizabeth HUNT - now that's a first, a relatively early registration!! Now let me see if I can find them on the 1891/1901 census. Well, that didn't last long - no trace of Barthy on subsequent census records and no trace of the other male Thomas BERRYMAN to see if he married Frances or Elizabeth. I can't imagine that there are too many Barthy LOVERIDGEs around, so I'm pretty sure he must be connected to your lot somewhere down the line. Looks like Adolphus & Sophia married after the births of some of their children. Searching for any other LOVERIDGE marriages at Dartford, have come up with a marriage registration in the June qtr 1884 at Dartford reg district, vol 2a, page 714 of Adolphus LOVERIDGE and one of the other names on the page is that of Sophia BOSWELL - yet another piece of concrete evidence - well relatively so anyway. Do you think they decided it was time to become respectable?

Time for lunch. Hope this helps a bit more.

Janet

[janbooth]

Yet another thought - could the burial record Lizzy & I found for Lasher LOVERIDGE at Battersea actually be a corruption of Elisha? The burial does not state whether it is male or female just that he/she was living at 8 Europa Place and was aged 55 which gives an approximate date of birth as 1820 - a bit out for Elisha I know but then their birth dates do seem to vary. This death was actually registered in the June qtr 1875 at Wandsworth reg district, vol 1d, page 390. I have tried to find Lasher in the 1871 census to either corroborate/eliminate him/her but so far no luck - wouldn't you just know it, one step forward and another back!

More thoughts - I know the birth places vary enormously, but there is more than one mention of Peterborough & Northamptonshire in the census records. I have the Northamptonshire Marriage Index and there are a couple of marriages which show William LOVERIDGE as father - see what you think:

30 August 1847 at Towcester John LOVERIDGE, bach, full age, Gipsy Pedlar, father William LOVERIDGE, Gipsy Pedlar married Eliza LOVERIDGE, spinster, full age, Gipsy Pedlar, father Thomas LOVERIDGE, Gipsy Pedlar

15 July 1839 at Towcester Moses LOVERIDGE, bach, 23, Pedlar, fathe William LOVERIDGE, Pedlar married Mary SKERRY, spinster, 21, Pedlar, father Thomas SKERRY, Pedlar

7 October 1838 at Towcester Plato LOVERIDGE, bach, 23, Pedlar, father William LOVERIDGE, Pedlar married Hannah SKERRY, spinster, 20, father Thomas SKERRY, Pedlar

18 November 1844 at Towcester Thomas LOVERIDGE, bach, full age, Gipsy Pedlar, father William LOVERIDGE, Gipsy Pedlar married Zilla LOVERIDGE, full age, Gipsy Pedlar, father James LOVERIDGE, Gipsy Pedlar.

All the participants were of the parish of Towcester. Of course, they could all be of a totally different clan of LOVERIDGEs but perhaps food for thought. Moses & Plato LOVERIDGE plus their families are still in Towcester in the 1851 census, Moses being born c1815 in Stoke Bruerne Northants and Plato c1819 in Shuthanger Northants and they are both described as Basket Makers. Plato has a daughter Lenea and a son named Benjamin - coincidence again maybe. There also appear to be fathers Job LOVERIDGE, a Brazier and Solomon LOVERIDGE, a Gipsy Pedlar quoted on other marriage records at Towcester around this time - all very biblical names as is your Elisha.

Janet

[janbooth]

Trying to follow the subsequent whereabouts of some of these Northamptonshire LOVERIDGEs (there was also a Sophia LOVERIDGE father Riley who married at Stoke Bruerne), Riley seemed to next go to Staffordshire (found some baptismal records for him as a father) and on looking for any LOVERIDGE baptisms in Staffordshire came upon these 2 extracted baptisms at Kinver, Staffs:

12 May 1843 Priscilla LOVERIDGE father Elisha mother Diana
10 August 1850 Louisa LOVERIDGE father Elisha mother Diana

However, according to the extracted record of his marriage on 3 May 1842 at Kinver to Diana LOVERIDGE, his father was James so that would appear to rule him out - darn it, I thought I had found something there.

Think I had better stop before I totally confuse both myself and you all.

Janet

[loulou1]

O boy you have worked hard.
I am sure that the name zilla (Zillah), in our research as a turned up as a middle name, in the later generation. I will get back to you on that one.
Looking at the way you research and the ordering of your findings, I’m learning a lot.
I have loads of paper with different names, dates, and families, all over the place no order what so ever.
A Peterborough & Northamptonshire connection sounds like it could a good one.
Maryann said she traveled all the time.
It seems that the Loveridge all moved to Deptford around the same time.
I also found a Boswell family in one of the surrounding streets to Hale Street.

Lou

[Lizzy9]

Hi Lou,

From what I can understand - Romanies often lived in houses during the winter months, sometimes sharing with friends or family, then come spring they would go off travelling selling their wares, or their skills, and some would hop pick, or be employed in other agricultural work. This is the main reason their children were born up and down the country, and probably why each was unsure where they were born.