+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Missouri, United States
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Smile Ogden Family in America, 1640s On

    Hello from the U.S.A.

    Author John Harpster has extensively researched the family of John Ogden (The Pilgrim) (b. 1609, England; d. 1682, Elizabethtown, New Jersey, British Colony.) He came to the conclusion that the John Ogden he was studying was probably from Lancashire. Mr. Harpster had a book published in the United States: JOHN OGDEN, THE PILGRIM (1609-1682): A MAN OF MORE THAN ORDINARY MARK (2006). Cranbury, New Jersey: Fairleigh Dickinson University Press.

    The book is really a biography, but is useful for those tracing that Ogden family line in the British Colonies and the U.S.A. It definitely clears up all the bogus information that U.S. Ogden genealogy researchers obtained from the William Ogden Wheeler book THE OGDEN FAMILY IN AMERICA.

    Fortunately, once in the British colonies of North America, John Ogden did the kinds of things that got his name and deeds written in official records, so getting that information correct was easier for Harpster. Plus, enough of "The Pilgrim's" descendants became people of enough import, of a sort, to have their names and deeds recorded in official records. (Although those dang American Ogdens seemed to have named a lot of their progeny after another Ogden, living in the same location around the same time, helping to confuse "the issue" - pardon the pun.) The Ogden family descending from John, The Pilgrim (as the U.S. genealogists call him) was also fruitful and multiplied, so there are now a lot of us.

    Jean E. DeLauche, a John Ogden, The Pilgrim, descendant
    P.S. For more information on John Harpster's book go to:
    ogdenbooks.com
    Last edited by Procat; 22-01-2010 at 8:16 AM. Reason: Commercial link removed. See AUP.

  2. #2
    A fountain of knowledge
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Garston,Liverpool
    Posts
    358
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Wink

    Do you know what age John was when he left England ?...did he have a son in England born 1645 ?
    babtism of John Ogden 23rd November 1645 in Lymm,by Warrington ......father John Ogden .......allan

  3. #3
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Missouri, United States
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello -

    John Ogden, The Pilgrim, (b. 19 Sep 1609, probably in Lancashire) arrived in the British Colony in Connecticut about 1641, age 32, most likely. The first mention of him at Rippowam, Connecticut was late in 1641. He was married 8 May 1637, in England (probably Lancashire) to Jane Bond. They emigrated to the New World with their 3 children, John (b. 3 Mar 1638) and twins, Jonathan and David (b. 11 Jan 1639.) There was another John Ogden in Connecticut at the same time as John (The Pilgrim - as he is referred to in the family, now.) That other John Ogden was a relative of John The Pilgrim - an uncle I believe - who probably came from the same area as John The Pilgrim. I suspect there were other John Ogdens around -- about the same time period -- all probably related, too -- in Lancashire and maybe Yorkshire. It seems the family followed the British Isles pattern of naming children after older kin with cousins and uncles having the same names.

    Jean E. DeLauche

  4. #4
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Derbyshire UK
    Posts
    610
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts

    Default

    Hi Jean. What are your sources for John’s dates? I had a quick look on the IGI site where there are multiple listings of John (the Pilgrim) Ogden. All appear to be member submitted entries and therefore should be treated with a great deal of caution. These entries also claim his marriage to Jane Bond took place in Bradley Plains, Hampshire. Was the IGI the source of the ’bogus information’ you mentioned in your first post?

    Ali

  5. #5
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Missouri, United States
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello, Ali -

    My apologies for not replying sooner. I haven't logged into this forum for a while.

    My sources of information on John (The Pilgrim) Ogden are as follows:

    Birth, about 1609:
    * Ancestry.com American Genealogical-Biographical Index

    ** The next 2 sources are what I would call "iffy" as I suspect the information was taken from the book by William Ogden Wheeler (1907) The Ogden Family In America, Elizabethtown Branch, And Their English Ancestry: John Ogden, The Pilgrim And His Descendants, 1640-1906, Their History, Biography, And Genealogy which is now considered "suspect" regarding early John Ogden family information. It seems that the genealogist Wheeler hired to do the research faked the early information about the family being from Bradley Plain, Hampshire, England. Most of the information on the family after arriving in the American colonies can be verified by other original resources, so much of that is a bit more reliable.
    * Ancestry.com Millenium File (questionable, as the information was probably taken from the Wheeler book)

    * Ancestry.com Family Data Collection - Births (definitely as the information was most likely taken from the Wheeler book)

    * Book: Harpster, Jack (2006). John Ogden, The Pilgrim (1609-1682): A Man of More Than Ordinary Mark. Cranbury, New Jersey: Fairleigh Dickenson University Press. (This is a well-researched book by a John, The Pilgrim descendant. He cites his references, many of which are original documents. Plus, he points out the likely errors in the Wheeler book. It can probably be purchased as a special order from a local book store -- buy local I say :-) -- or ordered via Amazon.com. Or, if you choose not to purchse a copy, I suspect your local public library can find the book held in another library in Great Britain and request that it be borrowed for you to read, via Interlibrary Loan. Ask a librarian at your public library information/reference desk about this.)

    Marriage, 8 May 1637 to Jane Bond, Lancashire, England:
    * Harpster book, page 201

    Arrival, late 1641 Rippowam, Connecticut, British Colony (present day Stamford, Connecticut, USA):
    * Ancestry.com Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s

    * Harpster book, page 65

    Occupation, Stone Mason:
    * Late 1641Rippowam, Connecticut, British Colony; Builds a dam and mill for the town:
    Harpster book, pages 68-71
    * May 1642, New Amsterdam, Island of Manhattan, New Netherlands, Dutch Colony; With brother Richard, obtains contract to build first permanent stone church in New Amsterdam located at or near Bowling Green park in present day New York City, New York, USA:
    Harpster book, pages 81-95

    Death, 30 May 1682, Elizabethtown, Union County, New Jersey, British Colony:
    * Harpster book, didn't not the page/s
    * Ancestry.com Millenium File

    (The Birth information in this file was most likely taken from the "iffy" Wheeler book source, but the death date can be verified with original historical records in state of New Jersey archival repositories.)
    * Ancestry Family Data Collection - Deaths


    I have other information on John, The Pilgrim I scanned, mostly from the Harpster book, but I haven't added it to my family tree yet.

    Another source of John, The Pilgrim information can be found via the Internet on free web sites offering the full text of the book
    The History of Elizabeth, New Jersey: Including the Early History of Union County. (1868), author, Edwin F. Hatfield:
    * Internet Archive www.
    archive.org
    The pages were scanned early in the technology of page scanning, however, and some of the text was garbled in the scanning, making the information a bit difficult to "decipher."
    * Google Books books.google.com
    The text is easier to read

    I hope this information is helpful to you. I'm a librarian/archivist/genealogist by profession and tend to be a bit "picky" about resources and their accuracy. :-)

    All the best to you -
    Jean E. DeLauche, Missouri, USA
    Last edited by Jan1954; 12-07-2010 at 7:03 PM. Reason: Links to Ancestry removed - please read the AUP

  6. #6
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Missouri, United States
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Correction to previous post-Ogden Fam. in Am.

    Correction to my previous post:

    Death, 30 May 1682, Elizabethtown, Union County, New Jersey, British Colony:
    * Harpster book, didn't note the page/s

    I left the "e" off "note."

    Jean E. DeLauche, Missouri, USA

  7. #7
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    No connection to your chap, but.......................................

    OGDEN is a name which occurs a lot in the north of England so it wouldn't surprise me if your chap did come from Lancashire - the trick is in finding the proof, for which original records are needed.

    The next problem is that there are likely to be many John Ogdens so the record of marriage needs to have some definite connection to the chap who emigrated. Marriage in 1637 in Lancashire - whereabouts in Lancashire, it's quite a large county? Is there any record of disposal of property in that parish, or nearby, prior to emigration which would help to relate the person who married to the person who ended up in America?

    Assuming that there are original records available in America showing him to have been a stonemason or builder - did he leave a will?

    Did he emigrate alone or with family? Is there a will for a previous generation which mentions him?

    Folowing on from the marriage - are there surviving parish registers (or non-conformist records) which then show baptisms of any children to the couple, and if so do the children then turn up in America?

  8. #8
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Missouri, United States
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello, Geoffers

    I haven't checked the email account to which messages posted on this forum are sent for a while. My apologies for not responding sooner to your post.

    I suspect tracing the roots of John Ogden (b. 19 Sep 1609, possibly Lancashire, England; d. 30 May 1682, Elizabethtown, Union County, New Jersey, British Colony) in Lancashire or any where else in England might not be possible, since it was a common name. Apparently, he had a cousin or an uncle with the same name, who also immigrated to the American colonies around the same time as he.

    The John Ogden I am researching immigrated with his wife, Jane (Bond, b. 1616, England; possibly married 8 May 1637, Lancashire), and their 3 sons born in England: John, b. 3 Mar 1638; and twins David and Jonathan, b. 11 Jan 1639; and his brother, Richard (b. abt 1610, England) and his wife Mary (Hall.)

    They initially came to what was then Rippowam, Connecticut (now, present day Stamford, Connecticut) in 1641. Records from the colony state the brothers were stonemasons and they built a dam for the town late in 1641.

    Records from New Amsterdam, Dutch colony of New Netherlands (now New York City) state that in May 1642 the stonemason brothers obtained a contract to build the first permanent stone church there, located at or near what is now Bowling Green Park in New York City.

    So, the brothers were most likely stonemasons in England. According to research done by Jack Harpster (another John Ogden descendant see information in earlier posts) in his 2006 book John Ogden, The Pilgrim (1609-1682): A Man of More Than Ordinary Mark, he surmises that John Ogden and his brother Richard were either encouraged or sponsored to come to Connecticut with their families. His theory is that two older men, who knew their father, and who came to Connecticut in 1635, prior to the Ogdens, Matthew Mitchell, a stonemason from the Pennine Hill area of Yorkshire and The Reverend Richard Denton, also from the Pennine Hills and a minister in some Lancashire villages, encouraged the Ogdens to immigrate.

    At any rate, finding any information on the Ogden family prior to John and Richard coming to the colonies won't be possible.

    My main reason for my earlier posts was to clue other Ogden family in America researchers not to rely heavily on a 1907 genealogy, The Ogden Family In America, Elizabethtown Branch, And Their English Ancestry: John Ogden, The Pilgrim And His Descendants, 1640-1906, Their History, Biography, And Genealogy by William Ogden Wheeler for early Ogden information. The Harpster book is extremely well researched and I believe a more reliable source for John "The Pilgrim" Ogden family information.

    Thank you for your interest.
    Jean E. DeLauche, Missouri, USA

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Select a file: