Lacey immigration look up

[DRosebud]

and this...

Helen Lacey
Birth date: 20 March 1872
Birth place: Germany
Death date: 15 January 1960
Death place: Los Angeles

(Original data held State of California, California Death Index: 1940-1997. Sacramento, CA, USA, Department of Health Services, Center for Health Statistics).

Deborah

[bibliojunkie]

Hi Deborah. Thank you for your research. If Charles did not have a Social Security number would that indicate he was of independent means? What a pity his death record didn’t give his father’s first name to fix conclusively Charles as mine. I wonder how Helen found her way from the US to Winnipeg? She must have met Charles soon after her arrival because Katie was born in October the following year.

My query about Elizabeth related to Charles’s assertion in 1919 when he entered the US that he had no relatives’ or friends’ address in Canada. Or did you mean that part of the form was blank? Elizabeth would have been 21 when her parents moved.

Whilst looking in Canadian archives this afternoon I found attestation papers signed in Winnipeg in 1914 for a Charles James Lacey born in Bristol in 1885. Not mine I know but I was startled to find that he was in Winnipeg and his father was also called James. So there were 2 CJL’s in the area. In the same archives my Charles is in business directories of 1892 & 1899 as a carpet cleaner and layer in Winnipeg.

The archives didn’t disclose when he arrived in Canada. Can anyone find this information?

Ali

[DRosebud]

Hi Deborah. Thank you for your research. If Charles did not have a Social Security number would that indicate he was of independent means?

The Social Security Act was not signed by Franklin D. Roosevelt until August, 1935 as part of the New Deal program. This act subsequently established two social programs...one being an unemployment compensation and the other an old-age retirement insurance. It is my understanding that originally, only workers in industrial and commercial occupations were covered... IF this is your Charles James Lacey...it would not have been a benefit to pay into the program given his age in 1935. Those of us who have paid in through employment starting in our 1st teen jobs can begin receiving checks monthly as early as 62 years of age. Employers often match our contributions depending on contract.

What a pity his death record didn’t give his father’s first name to fix conclusively Charles as mine.

Keep in mind that I provided the INDEX information to you...you can provide application for the original documentation if a proven family member...would have to look at California's regulations online.

I wonder how Helen found her way from the US to Winnipeg?

Am thinking that Helen immigrated with her family who may have gone to Canada via USA port of arrival I have not looked for her immigration record). However, there is also the possibility of an error in the Census record.

My query about Elizabeth related to Charles’s assertion in 1919 when he entered the US that he had no relatives’ or friends’ address in Canada. Or did you mean that part of the form was blank?

On the form it is written, no relatives' or friends' address in Canada (where others have
such). Could mean many ideas, Elizabeth was living outside of Canada already, Charles and Helen were estranged for some reason from their daughter or visa versa, she had died, or he was running away from Canada, BUT strange that during all that time living in Canada he would not have jotted down at least a friend's address don't you think?

Elizabeth would have been 21 when her parents moved.

I have looked for a record of Canadian death for Elizabeth, or marriage...no luck.

Whilst looking in Canadian archives this afternoon I found attestation papers signed in Winnipeg in 1914 for a Charles James Lacey born in Bristol in 1885.
Not mine I know but I was startled to find that he was in Winnipeg and his father was also called James. So there were 2 CJL’s in the area. In the same archives my Charles is in business directories of 1892 & 1899 as a carpet cleaner and layer in Winnipeg.

The archives didn’t disclose when he arrived in Canada. Can anyone find this information?

Ali

I have searched for this record, but haven't found one nor marriage of Charles and Helen.

Deborah

[DRosebud]

Hello Ali,

There is an immigration record for a Chas Jas Lacey aged 24 Male
England to United States (Saloon) on A*.

Occupation: Carpet Cutter
Arrival date: 27 March 1882 ( year fits with 1930 US Census record)
Port of departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Sailed on the Britannic and port of arrival (state): New York

(Original data: Passenger and Crew Lists of Vessels arriving at New York, New York 1820-1897
National Archives Microfilm Publication M237_448 Line:1

Possibly Charles went to Canada via USA... Deborah

[bibliojunkie]

Deborah, Your research and info is very much appreciated. I have been on the CA records site to order an ’information’ certificate but payments are by cheque or money order drawn on a US bank or the US Postal Service only. I’ve sent an email querying how someone from overseas pays. If there is a problem I have a friend from KY visiting after Christmas and she may be able to get the cert for me.

Perhaps Charles and Helen didn’t marry. I did find the marriage for an Elizabeth Lacey on the Manitoba stats site. Did Katie Lacey marry? As for the lack of friends/relatives’ addresses in Canada perhaps Charles decided to cut all ties.

I am surprised Charles came to Canada via New York as my relly info claimed he had a job to go to in Winnipeg (am pursuing that line of enquiry) so assumed he would have gone via Halifax or Montreal.

Interestingly, I can’t find a birth for Charles James in 1858. I'd linked him with the one who was b QJune 1856. He is 25 in the 1881 census. That would have made him 91 when he died - a grand age. Looks like he started knocking years off when he emigrated.

Thanks again, Ali

[DRosebud]

Hello Ali,

I had also thought that Charles and Helen did not marry BUT on the 1930 US Census, both gave their ages at time of 1st marriage as 39 and 24 respectively so if not each other to someone

The Charles coming to USA could be some other Charles A Lacey BUT perhaps your Charles and Helen met in the US and married?? (I did look for a US marriage-no luck)
Your Charles probably did emigrate directly to Canada BUT I could not see a record...anyway on census he emigrated 1882.

Regarding the birthdate...as you know, it may or may be different in census records due to the informant or enumerator error. The record you found might be the correct one to pursue...he sure would be interesting to talk too~

Do post if you find out new details with further research.

All best, Deborah

[bibliojunkie]

Ah, Deborah you've just mentioned Charles A Lacey. Do you mean J? I did notice there was quite a long list on A* of Charles Laceys going to Canada but I am sure you have the right one, apart from the age, because of the occupation mentioned on UK census + 'wife' and other details as per the 1901 Manitoba one.

The rellies info has been pretty reliable so far. With hindsight I wish I had pressed for more info when they were alive. Ironically, the Laceys are not the branch I was intending to pursue in my first major delve into genealogy but they have been a very interesting bunch.

Will keep you posted re any new info.

Ali

[BeeJay]

The archives didn’t disclose when he arrived in Canada. Can anyone find this information?
Ali

Both the 1901 and 1911 censuses have Charles in Winnipeg giving his year of immigration as 1882.

Ali, I think Kate and Elizabeth were the same person and they had only the one daughter. The 1901 census, at least for my relatives, very often has the birth dates out by one year. The Manitoba Vital Statistics website has the birth of Katherine Elizabeth Lacey on 16 October 1898.

[DRosebud]

Ali,

I did know you had the 1901/1911 Census and occupation appears right for Charles JAMES Lacey (sorry did not catch my own typo). Yes, your Laceys are interesting.

Well done, BeeJay...looks to be another piece solved for Ali!

Deborah

[bibliojunkie]

Duh! Thanks BeeJay. How stupid of me not to pick up Katie is Elizabeth. I think I had looked at the 1901 census sometime before the 1911 one and thought two girls were born in October 1897 and 1898 + I didn't know the census ages were probably out by a year. So no lost child and that Lacey/Hurley marriage is nothing to do with my lot. Pity, I was looking forward to having Elizabeth Hurley in my tree.

BTW Beejay, I looked on the Automated Genealogy site for the census records and I didn't see a date of immigration. Is there another site you used? The date definitely ties Charles to the one Deborah found

I'm afraid you will have a long wait for more news: have received an automated reply from the archives stating there is an 8 - 12 week delay in answering email queries.

Ali