Help! Wills versus the official records

[Peter Goodey]

And I would say that for most of our ancestors, the National Archives is not logically the first place to look for wills.

We look there first (I do too) because it's easy.

PCC wills are not even a good cross section of all wills. People with ancestors in the north of England are much less likely to have luck in the PCC records.

An essential reference that should be on every genealogical bookshelf is "Probate Jurisdictions: Where to Look for Wills".

[arthurk]

Don't forget the Death Duty records - see this thread for more information (there are probably others too on the Wills board). Very briefly, these records can give full names of people who might only have been called "my wife" or "my children" in a will.

Some Death Duty information is available at TNA's Documents Online, some at FindMyPast. However, ordering paper copies from TNA seems to have changed since most of that thread was written.

From other threads, am I right in thinking, esdel, that these ancestors are in Suffolk? If so, I think you will find the Norwich online wills invaluable. I have only a passing knowledge of these, but I'm sure some ol' bor will enlighten us more.

Arthur

[Geoffers]

From other threads, am I right in thinking, esdel, that these ancestors are in Suffolk? If so, I think you will find the Norwich online wills invaluable. I have only a passing knowledge of these, but I'm sure some ol' bor will enlighten us more.

Suffolk being in the diocese of Norwich, you may find some wills (available to download free) via Norfolk Sources these cover 1800-1857

Alternatively search via NOAH (Norfolk Online Access to Heritage).

These sites have the bonus of being able to search directories.

Fare yer well tergether.

[BeeE586]

Three thoughts .......

Wasn't it Sherlock Holmes who said something like, " If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must hold some grain of truth. "

So - eliminate the impossible.

Approach a local Family History Society to see if they have published any transcripts of Probate Documents or if any are available in their Archive for consultation.

Approach the Diocesan Record Office to see if they have any transcripts available.

I mention these last two because it is something I have made available for several local parishes. If I can do it, so could others.

Eileen

[esdel]

I too thought I had sorted out the family of a John and wife Mary until I obtained his will.

The children were named as expected and I was able to confirm family connections to the executors. But his wife was named as Letitia!

After much re-research I discovered that John had remarried after the death of Mary. This was circa 1810 and with a number of possible entries in PRs I had not previously been able to identify the entry for "my" Mary in the burial register. It was much simpler with Letitia!

Well bb same here!
My John married one Mary after another producing many a John and Thomas not to mention Mary in profusion.
My Thomas (possible brother of John) married a Mary then a Lettitia, aka Lettice, aka Letia.(but at least nor a Mary)
Oh for a Habbuchuk or two!

But mine are all Rous/Rouse family, so I probably canna help you - sorry
esdel

[Wirral]

.......but they are still a useful resource and even where someone did not elave a will, there may be Letters of Administration.

I quite agree that Wills & Admons are an extremely useful resource. My argument is that the majority of people did not leave either. If you find wills for your family, then that is wonderful. But that is not my experience with my family.

As an exercise, I looked at 8 of the most common names in my Scottish lines (on ScotlandsPeople), and compared the number of deaths from 1855 to 1901 for people aged between 25 & 100, with the number of wills & admons issued in Scotland (that includes all the Probate courts) for the same period. The results were pretty consistent for all 8 names. Only 1 in 6 left a Will or Admon - that means that 5 out of 6 did not leave a Will or Admon. Unfortunately all my family fall into the latter category.

It is the same with my English lines. The only 2 people in my direct line, dying after 1858, who left wills were my parents. I have checked the Probate Calendar for all of them.

By the way, I haven't got any SMITHs in my family. I just used them & the National Archives as an example.

[Peter Goodey]

But it's still worth looking for them, isn't it?

[Geoffers]

But it's still worth looking for them, isn't it?

...................and if you don't look, you'll never know.

[MythicalMarian]

But it's still worth looking for them, isn't it?

Yes, it is. I actually have two labourers who left wills, because they had received a bequest from a rich relative earlier in their lives and therefore had a bit to leave and were concerned to 'do the right thing' with the little windfall. You just never know.

[Wirral]

But it's still worth looking for them, isn't it?

...................and if you don't look, you'll never know.

I don't remember ever saying that it wasn't worth looking for wills.

But if the evidence suggests that leaving Wills or Admons is not the norm, then assuming that you are likely to find one is to make a false assumption. If the situation in England & Wales mirrors that in Scotland, then my brief bit of research suggests that 5 out of 6 people did not leave a will. Even if you make the false assumption that all these wills were made by men, that would still mean that 2 out of 3 men did not leave a will.

Assumptions can be dangerous things & can send you off down false lines. Assuming that a will should be found is akin to assuming that the IGI covers all baptisms & marriages, or that all births were registered.

The majority of people in the UK in the past have been the poor, the working class, the peasants. They are the ancestors of most of us. And most did not leave anything except genes.