Who is he and Where from

[Eddy]

Hi from a new member,
I had seemed to have come up to a dead stop/brick wall!! My 4xG/Gdad Richard Edmondson married Rebecca Wilkinson at East Marton, near Skipton, North Yorkshire in 1773. Her father was John Wilkinson, Yeoman.
Richard rented a farm on the Broughton Hall Estate for which he paid £170 per year rent, rising to £190 by 1790. I know, that sounds a lot!! He also bought a Long Horn Bull for £40 at one time. I have seen the account books for the period still held at Broughton Hall.
I am sure he was ‘Bank Rolled ‘ by Rebecca’s father, but surely Richard would have had some standing to marry into a family with such financial standing. I have a copy of Rebecca’s father’s Will in which Richard is mentioned along with the Grandchildren and Rebecca’s brothers’ but I can’t find a Will from Richard though!
My wall is, Where did Richard come from and who were his parents. Surely he must have had some standing to marry into money. I have searched all the Church records within a 10 mile radius and can’t find any clear father for Richard. A copy of his Marriage Licence says he was 25 when he married Rebecca. He contracted to pay £250 as a Bond to marry, No father was mentioned nor is he mentioned in the Records at the Wedding of Richard and Rebecca.But I cannot find a birth of a Richard within 10 years in the Church Records around the Marton or Broughton area. Has anyone any advise what to do next.
By the way, what would £170 per year rent be at today’s rate!!
Eddy

[pwholt]

Have you looked for Edmondson wills in the greater area? This might pinpoint Richard's father or grandfather, brother, uncle, maiden aunts. Wealthy farmers sometimes married into families much further afield than we think. PW

[Eddy]

Thanks for the information, but I have to confess, I had thought it would be alot more. I had the idea that £170 would be the wage of three workers, colating to about £70k today. Even so, it is a hugh amount. Just for the record, what is the NA Currency Converter!!
PW, I thought I had looked every where but I'm willing to learn. Thanks for the pointer, but what do you mean by 'the greater area'? I have looked at Barwick Inst. at York, the NA records and Preston, those on line anyway. Perhaps he may have lived someway off, I had only thought in terms of him 'courting'!! Actually one of his sons got married in London, (again this points to them having some money). Thats causing me a problem, trying to trace his wifes family. I know her father's name and address but can't find out about him and his family. Thanks again to you both.

[daggers]

N[ational] A[rchives] currency converter available by this:
<https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency/default2.asp>
It will show you what a pound then is worth today or the other way around.

[arthurk]

Hi Eddy
Can you tell from the marriage licence whether Richard's age is meant to be exactly 25 years, or "25 years and upwards"? The latter form could have been used when the exact age was unknown, but clearly over a certain figure - and I think it could sometimes be implicit rather than explicit. And does the licence (or the parish register for that matter) give any more information about where he was living when he married?

I've had a quick look for a Richard Edmondson in the IGI and there seem to be a few of that name (or the variant Edmundson) in Barnoldswick, which isn't very far away, though most would probably have been too old. There was one baptised in 1742, which would make him around 31 in 1773, or possibly older - hence the question about the age on the marriage licence.

Arthur

[Eddy]

Thanks Daggers for your input, when I look at it again, NA becomes obvious!!
Arthur, you too have brought something to the fore. I have Richards Marriage Bond dated19 Feb. 1773,'Bond' I asume because Rebbeca was '18 and upwards' though under age ( a minor), but as her father was pesent to sign the concent, it is probably safe to say she was 18.
Richard's also says '25 and upwards' but as both dates are written and the 'and upwards' printed are we at liberty to take the dates on face value?. Would it also be safe to asume as these people were not peasants, Rebecca's father is discribed as a Yeoman, that they would be fairly inteligent and know their ages. All parties signed their own names too, including Rebbeca's brother William,which could mean something.
However, there is no mention of Richard's father, nor is he mentioned in the Church Record of the Wedding.
I did note the baptism you found for 1742 in IGI and wondered if it could be it, based on the age info. on the Bond!! When you can't prove it is or prove it isn't??????
So Richard seems to be something of an inigma. He is inteligent enough to run a succesful farm on a large estate, he must be presentable to marry into a wealthy family. If he came from a family with money, perhaps from Barnoldswick 6 miles down the road, why is there no batisum, Wills available. The Bond says he is of the Parish of Marton, the same as Rebecca. But Prior to his marriage there are no mentions of the Edmondson family in the Church Records since about 1650!! Does this mean he was an "in comun!!"
I have been at this point for about 2 years now. As this is my direct line that has come to a halt, if I want to know who Richards family were, is it worth calling on the 'Prefessionals', or is this cheating!!! Or, try the "Brick Wall Forum"
Eddy

[Nicolina]

just because it says that he was "of the Parish of Marton" doesn't mean that he was from there originally, only that he was living in the Parish when he married. I'd definitely try looking in other areas. Try working outwards from Broughton.

[arthurk]

Richard's also says '25 and upwards' but as both dates are written and the 'and upwards' printed are we at liberty to take the dates on face value?

Unless there is fresh evidence to the contrary, I think we have to take what is written there as correct - giving false information was a serious matter. So all we can deduce is that Richard was 25 or over. Marriage licences/bonds normally give the name and description of a bondsman, as well as the applicant (who was usually the groom), and sometimes this can provide useful clues. Who is it in this case?

So Richard seems to be something of an inigma. He is inteligent enough to run a succesful farm on a large estate, he must be presentable to marry into a wealthy family. If he came from a family with money, perhaps from Barnoldswick 6 miles down the road, why is there no batisum, Wills available.

The index to Yorkshire wills for that period includes some Edmundson entries for Barnoldswick, Skipton, Gisburn and Bracewell, as well as other places (some of them were admons rather than wills). You can view it online at British Origins, or on film at an LDS Family History Centre. Getting copies of all of the the possible ones might prove a bit expensive - it might be cheaper to go to the Borthwick Institute to view them in person.

Arthur

[pwholt]

My route would be to look at the Barnoldswick man and see what else you can find for him there. Did he marry there and so eliminate himself as a candidate? or are there children baptised there with him as a father? If yes to either question, then you need to look further for another man of the same name. If no, then keep going to see if you can disprove him as your candidate, even if you can't prove him. This is advice from the late Jean Cole. She called it a positive negative. PW