Davis/Davies, Cornish brickwall

[Flynn]

Please can you help me? As I am STILL stuck with my Maternal Grandfather and family
Two questions I would like help with please.
When I have added anything to my private personal tree, I am at loss, to know how to prove information, past 1837. After then it is just a matter of trying to get B.M.D Certificates. Hence the reason that I have only done my direct line.
This has limited me ongiving other people, any information, as I don`t want to lead them up the garden path, with false info.
Secondly, Mary Ann Davies/Davis, and her children.
On the 1981 Census, it states that she was a Widow, living on her own means. Yet I CANNOT find her marriage. (She later married a Henry Young in 1891.) On the Marriage Cert. she was a Spinster).
Now I went to the Family History Society when I was last in Cornwall, and they found a William Davis, born in Breage 1891. His mother was Mary Ann FOSS, formerly DAVIES..
I suspect he was illegitamate.
Her other children appear to be too.
On Williams Marriage Cert. it states his father was Thomas Davis.
Any help gratefully received.
Thanks Flynn

[Sandyhall]

Hi
Have I got the right people in the 1901 Census

Henry Young - Head - Market gardner - age 56 b. abt 1845 Manaccan, Cornwall
Mary A Young - Wife - age 55 b. abt 1846 st Hilary, Cornwall
Thomas Davies - Stepson - Ag. Lab. - age 23 b. abt 1878 Breage, Cornwall
William Davies - Stepson - Painters App. - age 19 b. abt 1882 Breage, Cornwall

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2232; Folio: 161; Page: 2.

Sandy

PS on the marriage cert. has it got fathers names and occupations please. and can you give the names of any other children.

PPS sorry for got to put they where living in Sithney, Cornwall

[janbooth]

Hello Flynn,

From the census records it would appear that Mary Ann was never married, but I could be wrong of course. However, going backwards on the census records:

In the 1901 census of Sithney, Mary Ann is married to Henry YOUNG, living at St Johns with her children Thomas & William DAVIS. In the 1891 census of Sithney, Mary DAVIES is shown as a Widow living at St Johns with children Edith aged 14 born Hayle, Thomas aged 13 born Helston & William aged 9 born Breage. In the 1881 census of Breage, Mary DAVIS is shown as an unmarried General Servant born Goldsithney living with her widowed mother Elizabeth DAVIS and Elizabeth's grandchildren Alberta aged 8 born Breage, Edith aged 4 born Hayle and Thomas aged 3 born Breage. Now we know from the 1891 census that Edith and Thomas are definitely Mary Ann's children. In the 1871 census of Helston, Mary A DAVIES is shown as an unmarried General Servant aged 22 born Goldsithney living in the household of Thomas J JEWELL a Licensed Victualler of "The Rodney" and family.

In the 1861 census of Breage, Mary A DAVIS is shown as an unmarried Tin Dresser living with father Thomas DAVIS (sound familiar from William's marriage certificate??), mother Elizabeth and several siblings, born St Hilary this time. In the 1851 census of Illogan, Redruth, Mary A DAVIES, shown as born Perran something (can't decipher the complete name but as St Hilary is close to Perranuthnoe that seems the likeliest place), is living with father Thomas, mother Elizabeth and 3 siblings plus an important find for you James YENDELL, Thomas's brother in law and therefore Elizabeth's brother hopefully giving you her maiden name. Unfortunately, there are 2 birth registrations for a Mary Ann DAVI(E)S c1846/7 in the Penzance reg district (correct reg district for St Hilary), one in Sep qtr 1846 and one in March qtr 1847 either, or none, of which could be your Mary Ann. However, to be certain you have the correct family, you could send for the birth certificate of |Mary Ann's sister Elizabeth, whose birth was registered in the December qtr 1850 at Redruth (contains the parish of Illogan where she was born) which would then give you mother Elizabeth's maiden name. Prior to that, you will have to consult parish register records to follow Mary Ann's parents backwards.

According to the 1851 census record, Thomas DAVIS was born in Ashwater, Devon c1810 and Elizabeth was born in Ruan, Cornwall c1821. Their eldest child was aged 8, so presumably they married c1842 and there is a marriage registration in the June qtr 1842 at Penzance reg district, vol 9, page 221 of an Elizabeth YENDALL and one of the other names on the page is that of a Thomas DAVIES. Sending for that certificate will give you the name and profession of the father of both bride and groom and then it is a question of searching the parish register of Ashwater for the baptism of a Thomas DAVI(E)S c 1810 with the appropriate father's name and doing the same for Elizabeth YENDALL in Ruan c1821. The parish registers are normally held at the appropriate County Record Offices but the LDS have microfilmed various parish registers and these can be hired to view in situ at your nearest Family History Centre (searchable on the Family Search website). You may also find parish register transcripts available on CD to purchase - have a look at The Parish Chest lists for Cornwall and Devon to see if the parishes you are interested in are available.

HTH explain things a little , but do not hesitate to ask if you need further help and good luck.

Janet

[Sandyhall]

If they are the right people then i have also found Thomas age 3 b abt 1878 Breage, with siblings Alberta age 8 b. abt 1873 Breage and Edith age 4 b. abt 1877 Hayle(Breage) with Grandmother Elizabeth Davies age 56 b. abt 1825 Ruan Minor. a miners widow with her daughter Mary Davies age 32 b. abt 1849 Goldsithney, unmarried - General Servant.
All on the 1881 Census - Class: RG11; Piece: 2326; Folio: 36; Page: 8;

Sandy

[Sandyhall]

Hi Janet
You are a star. I have all the same info as you so i am not going to repeat it all. mind you i'm a bit slow today as I haven't had any cups of tea as the "man" has been early to redo the kitchen floor

Flynn Janet has found them you need to get some cert. for your records

Sandy

[Flynn]

Thank you, Sandy and Janet, for not only taking the trouble to reply to me so quickly, but lalso for giving me all that information.
It REALLY is gratefully received. I think now I have to accept that Mary Ann DID have illegitimate children and perhaps I`ll never know their true identity.

Next question, how do I prove the relation ship of Mary Ann to Thomas Foss resulting in Williams Birth? I do have a newspaper cutting on William atfter his funeral, saying his parents were Mr and Mrs T Davis.
with many grateful thanks, Flynn

[Flynn]

Thanks, have just found Mary Albertas, (one of Mary Annes daughters) marriage cert. Says on there her father was John Henry DAVIES.
Yey on Mary Annes birth cert. it says, name:Mary Alberta Jenkin, Mother:Mary Ann Davies, Father :Unknown. Odd.
So will try and track John Henry Davies down.
Thanks agin for your help.
Best wishes Flynn

[MarkJ]

Thanks, have just found Mary Albertas, (one of Mary Annes daughters) marriage cert. Says on there her father was John Henry DAVIES.
Yey on Mary Annes birth cert. it says, name:Mary Alberta Jenkin, Mother:Mary Ann Davies, Father :Unknown. Odd.
So will try and track John Henry Davies down.
Thanks agin for your help.
Best wishes Flynn

Not at all uncommon for someone to put down an imaginary father on their marriage certificate. Remember there was quite a stigma attached to being illegitimate back then and putting down a made up father was one way to avoid awkward questions.
I suspect there was no John Henry Davies. Does the marriage cert claim that John Henry is deceased?

Mark

[Sandyhall]

just a thought (I know I should not do that I'll get a headache)LOL

Is it possible that a Mary Ann Foss married Thomas Davies/Davis and they are their children, They both die and his mother Elizabeth and his sister Mary Ann Davies look after the children. Elizabeth the grandmother then dies and Mary Ann the Aunt keeps the children and passes herself off as a widow in the 1891 census. Mary Ann then marries Henry Young so she comes as a package with the children.

Or is this two far fetched and I'm making up fairy stories LOL

Sandy

PS yes please tell me off

[Flynn]

Hello, Mark,
No it just says on the Mary Albertas Marriage that John Henry DAVIES, suposedly her father, as he is down as that, is a Tin Miner. No mention of him being desceased.
Thanks Flynn