Mistake in marriage register?

[carolchipp]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

It's possible that it was wrongly indexed. Handwritten "Goring" could easily be mistaken for "Young". It will all become clear when you get the certificate.

Thanks Peter, that's what I meant to ask. I'm pretty certain this is my couple, so I'll order the cert.

The family were wrongly transcribed as Young a couple of times (genes reunited).
Sandyhall - Emily is staying with her grandparents, Thomas and Martha Ward in the 1871. It took me ages to find her a couple of years ago when I had an Ancestry sub. After searching all Emilys born around 1861 in Shropshire, (I didn't have her maternal grandparents at the time) I finally found her transcribed as Emily Joram, although the entry actually looked as though it had been written as it was said ie. Gorin
It seems to depend on how open or narrow the capital G is written and the legibility of the census entry, so I suppose it is quite possible that whoever indexed the register had the same problem.

If the certificate turns out to be my couple (addresses, fathers' names and occupations should confirm it) is there something I should do about it being wrongly indexed?

Carol

[Pam Downes]

If the certificate turns out to be my couple (addresses, fathers' names and occupations should confirm it) is there something I should do about it being wrongly indexed?

Provided that the vicar has written Goring/and or Thomas has clearly signed Goring, then you can advise the GRO that the surname is Goring and not Young. They can only amend the records they hold at Southport. (I think they used to be able to amend the ledgers at the now-gone Family Record Centre as well, and I think Kew only have microfiche records, not ledgers.)
The other thing you can do is to attach a post-em to the entries for both Thomas and Sarah on FreeBMD giving the correct details.

If you haven't ordered the certificate yet I would advise you to order it in Sarah's name only. If you put Thomas Young as the groom on the order form, and it says Goring on the certificate then the GRO won't send it as they will say the details don't agree. Regardless of the fact that their Index says Young.
If it still looks as if the surname could be either Goring or Young on the certificate then it would be worth getting hold of a copy of the original certificate. Provided they married in church that is. If no-one is able to do a look-up at the relevant Record Office, then you can always ask the Record Office for a photocopy. Might cost a couple of quid, but it would be worth it. If the marriage was in the Register Office, then I would contact them (sending a photocopy of the certificate you have) and ask if they could possibly compare their copy and see if the names agree.
Pam

[Sandyhall]

Hi Carol,

A check of the image for the marriage index shows Thomas was recorded as Young so it is not a transcription error by Ancestry.

However, for that place, quarter and volume there were two couples married:

Bailey Joseph
Morris Sarah
Ward Sarah
Young Thomas

The Sarah Ward may have married Joseph Bailey or Thomas Young.

And a person could be married under any name that they gave at the time. So if Thomas Goring had called himself Thomas Young he could well have "got away with it".

Hi just catching up
Hope you are not going to get this Marriage Cert as its the wrong one.
I have given you these 2 on the 1861 Census and Thomas Goring on the 1861 Census which makes it 3 couples

Joseph Bailey and Sarah

Thomas Young and Sarah

Thomas Goring and Sarah

Sandy

[Sandyhall]

Hi
Have you got a copy of this Birth Cert.

Births Mar qtr 1861
Emily GORING, Madeley, Vol no 6a, Page no 591.


This will confirm parent names.

Sandy

[carolchipp]

1861 Census has Thomas Young b abt 1824 Worthen and wife Sarah Ann b abt 1831 Tunstall with child Emma Young b abt 1860 Talk.
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 19

Sandy

Hi Sandy,
This couple were already married in the 1851 - HO 107/2168 117.
I don't have Emily's cert yet but I think that's the one. Emily was my great grandmother and her parents were definitely Thomas Goring and Sarah Ward, so I'll know if it's the right one when I get it. Since the Thomas and Sarah Young in the '61 were already married (I think in '48) I might as well order the cert for Thomas Young and Sarah Ward but as was suggested earlier, I'll order it with Sarah's name.

Carol

[Pam Downes]

Hi
1861 Census has Joseph Bailey b abt 1840 Dawley and wife Sarah b abt 1840 Dawley
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1855; Folio: 137; Page: 46

1861 Census has Thomas Young b abt 1824 Worthen and wife Sarah Ann b abt 1831 Tunstall with child Emma Young b abt 1860 Talk.
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 19

Sandy

Hi Sandy,
This couple were already married in the 1851 - HO 107/2168 117.
I don't have Emily's cert yet but I think that's the one. Emily was my great grandmother and her parents were definitely Thomas Goring and Sarah Ward, so I'll know if it's the right one when I get it. Since the Thomas and Sarah Young in the '61 were already married (I think in '48) I might as well order the cert for Thomas Young and Sarah Ward but as was suggested earlier, I'll order it with Sarah's name.

Carol

If anyone wants any proof that two people can claim they were born in the same place and same year check out Thomas Young, born 1824 in Worthen Shropshire in 1851. (Well, and 1861.) I'm pleased I haven't got to sort this lot out.
I think this seems to be the families.
1851
HO107/2168 folio 117 page 22
Alsager, Cheshire
Thomas Young, head, mar, 28, coal miner, Shropshire Worthen
Sarah Ann, wife, mar, 20, dress maker, Staffordshire Tunstall

1861
RG9/1920 folio page
Talk on the Hill, Audley, Staffs
Thomas Young, head, mar, 37, labourer, Shropshire Worthen
Sarah Ann, wife, mar, 30, Staffordshire Tunstall
Emma, daur, 1, Staffordshire Talk
William Young, father, widower, 65, Shropshire Worthen
Mary Young, niece, 9, scholar, Staffordshire Walsall

The other Thomas Young, who doesn't fit into the original query, but who may have caused problems because he was unmarried in 1851, can be found in 1851
HO107/1992 folio 525 page 17
St Chad, Shrewsbury
Thomas Young, lodger, unm, 28, whitesmith, Salop Worthen

1861
RG9/1869 folio 92 page 13
parish of St Mary Shrewsbury
Thos Young, head, mar 37, railway engine smith, Salop Worthen
Mary, wife, mar 35, Herefordshire Rotchford
John Lockyer Young, son, 4, Salop Shrewsbury
Sarah Ann, daur, 2, Salop Shrewsbury

Probable marriage in March quarter 1852 Shrewsbury registration district Thomas Young and a Mary Lockyer on the same page.

Meanwhile, to re-confirm the Thomas Goring Sandy earlier found in 1861
RG9/1855 folio 8 page 10
Dawley
Thomas Goring, head, mar, 24, furnace lab, Salop Dawley
Sarah, wife, mar, 24, Salop Dawley
Emily 1 month old, Salop Dawley

In 1851 he's probably the Thomas Goring, aged, 14, scholar, born Dawley, living in Dawley with widowed father Richard and seven siblings.
HO107/1988 folio 168 page 16

In 1851, there's a Sarah Ward born Wellington Shropshire 1838, living in Dawley with parents Thomas and Martha and four siblings. HO107/1988 folio 174 page 29. The family were living in Dawley in 1841.
Pam

[Sandyhall]

Hi Pam
I had searched for all 3 couples in the Census and found all of them and followed them Census by Census with their children.

Joseph Bailey and Sarah

Thomas Young and Sarah

Thomas Goring and Sarah

Hi Caro;e

I'd ring the Records Office and ask for a check to be taken to see what the records say before ordering them. Then order them from them rather than the GRO.

Sandy

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam
I had searched for all 3 couples in the Census and found all of them and followed them Census by Census with their children.

Joseph Bailey and Sarah

Thomas Young and Sarah

Thomas Goring and Sarah

But following the couples through the census doesn't prove when a marriage took place nor does it prove who married who or when. The only proof you have of a marriage and the who, when, and where is the marriage certificate.
Are you saying that the Thomas Young and Sarah (maiden name currently unproven) which both Carol and I found in 1851 weren't actually married in 1851 and only married in March quarter 1861 in Madeley registration district? Even though their daughter Emma was allegedly born in Talk, where they were living in 1861, and Talk is in Newcastle under Lyme district? (And yes, it does get confusing that there is a Madeley Staffordshire in Newcastle under Lyme district, while the Madeley in Shropshire is in Madeley district. )

Hi Caro;e
I'd ring the Records Office and ask for a check to be taken to see what the records say before ordering them. Then order them from them rather than the GRO.
Sandy

If by 'the Records Office' you mean the district Registrar's Office they are unlikely to check for you unles you know the church/chapel/register office in which a marriage took place. Though if it was Thomas Young-but-should-be-Goring I wouldn't mind having a bet that the marriage took place in Dawley. So yes, to contact the Madeley Registrar's Office and ask them to check the Dawley registers would be an option, and probably the better one as they will have the 'second' register, not a transcripted copy of the second register which is what the GRO have.
Carol - Madeley district registers have been split between Shropshire and Telford and Wrekin offices. (You may just need to scroll up a smidgen.) I would try the Shropshire one first.
Pam

[JAP1]

Not sure if the following have been posted ...

Extracted entries from the IGI, all in Little Dawley Shropshire

Parents Thomas GORING & Sarah
* Emily GORING, bap 7 Apr 1861
* Sarah Ann GORING, bap 3 Jan 1864
* Sarah Ellen GORING, bap 1 Oct 1865
* Margaret GORING, bap 16 Feb 1868

JAP

[JAP1]

From looking at the censuses, it seems that 'Sarah Ellen' from the IGI should really be 'Mary Ellen'!

I see that the family (apart from Emily, and with the addition of Lucy) was in Bedwelty, Monmouthshire in 1871. And that Thomas, Martha and Elizabeth were born there; and that, in 1877, Thomas died there.

But the 1881 census (now in Preston Lancashire) is weird with Sarah GORING, Head, Widow, 44 crossed out, and Sarah A GORING, 18, listed as Head and the rest of the children (apart from Emily who is elsewhere) as her Sisters and Brother. But where is their mother Sarah??

JAP