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  1. #21
    Heather
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    Quote Originally Posted by MythicalMarian View Post
    Linda, I don't suppose you've considered the possibility of little Ellen being an 'adopted' child? Or even a foundling they took in? I am just a wee bit concerned about a labourer having the wherewithal to sail out to the Windies and back again in the time scale you have.
    I must say I tend to agree with you. Carpenters and that sort of trade would go out to Jamaica, but most often didn't take their families with them. The price of the ship's passage would be too much. Hopefully Linda can find a scrap of evidence elsewhere that may give her a hint or two. Anyone living in a "hut by the side of the road" obviously could not afford to go out to the West Indies with their whole family. Baffles me, though.

  2. #22
    lindarhead
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heather View Post
    I must say I tend to agree with you. Carpenters and that sort of trade would go out to Jamaica, but most often didn't take their families with them. The price of the ship's passage would be too much. Hopefully Linda can find a scrap of evidence elsewhere that may give her a hint or two. Anyone living in a "hut by the side of the road" obviously could not afford to go out to the West Indies with their whole family. Baffles me, though.
    Hi Heather,

    Yes I have to agree it is baffling,and of course I now know that John and his family including Ellen, who is listed as Eleanor on the 1841 census were back in England by the night of the census 41. Also living or staying in the 'hut by the side of the road' are two other families plus a toll collector. I am wondering whether they're al bunking down for the night with the Toll collector en route to elsewhere in Islington. By 1851 the Hill family are living at 2 Kings Rd,Islington and John is still a labourer and had two further daughters,plus have had one other child who possibly was born to them and died as an infant in 1841.There's just something that isn't adding up here, but I don't know what!

    Linda

  3. #23
    Geoffers
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    No answers, just some thoughts...........

    You might try tracking down parish registers for baptisms of children, prior to Ellen/Eleanor. Look for the occupation of John and if it was different from the census returns. Perhaps he went bankrupt and was avoiding debtor's prison? Maybe try searching the London Gazette?

    The suggestion of an adoption is a distinct possibility, was Ellen/Eleanor baptised in England perhaps in Islington? If she was baptised in Islington who is shown as the parent(s)? Did John have a child before Thomas and was Ellen/Eleanor actually his grandchild?

    Any other HILL(S) who are shown in census returns as being born in the West Indies?

    Any convictions of HILL(S)? Try a search of TNA's catalogue using the surname and the department or series code 'HO'.

  4. #24
    lindarhead
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffers View Post
    No answers, just some thoughts...........

    You might try tracking down parish registers for baptisms of children, prior to Ellen/Eleanor. Look for the occupation of John and if it was different from the census returns. Perhaps he went bankrupt and was avoiding debtor's prison? Maybe try searching the London Gazette?

    The suggestion of an adoption is a distinct possibility, was Ellen/Eleanor baptised in England perhaps in Islington? If she was baptised in Islington who is shown as the parent(s)? Did John have a child before Thomas and was Ellen/Eleanor actually his grandchild?

    Any other HILL(S) who are shown in census returns as being born in the West Indies?

    Any convictions of HILL(S)? Try a search of TNA's catalogue using the surname and the department or series code 'HO'.
    Food for thought there Geoffers...that's tomorrow planned out already then!..

    I'll keep you all posted.

    Linda

  5. #25
    LynA
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    Census entries show my ancestor was born in the West Indies about 1811 and her sister born there in 1814. Their father was in the British army at that time and stationed in St Lucia.
    The family were living in Lymington in 1808 and back in Lymington again by 1817. The girls were baptised on the family's return to Lymington.
    I think it quite likely that many soldiers who left the army would become labourers. My ancestors ended up in the workhouse, so they were not supported by the army.

    Perhaps your family had a similar reason for travel?


    Good luck with your searches,
    Lynda

  6. #26
    Mutley
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    One of mine stated on the census that she was born in the West Indies. Further tracking proved, she was not, she was born in Newington in Surrey.

    But her father, when I found him, stated he was from Guadeloupe. A French island. I don't know if my Mary Ann actually ever knew where she was born.

    We know far more about them than they knew about themselves.

  7. #27
    Heather
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutley View Post
    One of mine stated on the census that she was born in the West Indies. Further tracking proved, she was not, she was born in Newington in Surrey.

    But her father, when I found him, stated he was from Guadeloupe. A French island. I don't know if my Mary Ann actually ever knew where she was born.

    We know far more about them than they knew about themselves.
    Hi Mutt!!

    I find it amusing that a lot of our ancestors told big fibs about ages, names, and all sorts of things.......thinking "no one will ever find out"......HAH!! Meanwhile, 100 years later along comes the internet and the LDS records and all sorts of ways to find out who they were and so on. One of Ron's British Jamaican ancestors had a fancy name for 1870.....Danielle. Her birth cert said "Drusilla Maude"......lordy, I would have changed it too.

    Cheers.....

  8. #28
    lindarhead
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    Morning Guys!!

    Loved reading your posts this morning, and I have to say Lynda I do keep coming back to John being in the military myself as I just don't see how a man,who doesn't appear to be any sort of tradesman, with a wife and then 5 children could afford to travel over to the W.Indies...but if in the army would he be allowed to take them all with him? The only military ref I've come across is the one that Geoffers suggested which has John having been in the 3rd Dragoon Guards, however I can't find mention anywhere of the 3rd Dragoons Guards being in the W.Indies at the time John was supposedly there. Military history is not a strong point of mine I have to confess...but I'm learning all the time.

    Anyhow to the good news....whilst I haven't yet found out why and where in the W.Indies Ellen was born, I have found her Baptizm record. She was baptised in Islington, Middlesex,in April 1840, on the same day as John & Eliz's baby son Frederick, sadly he later died in January 1841. So that's one hurdle over...now to the big one...the why,where,how and if she was born in the West Indies!..

    I'll keep you posted!...

    Linda

  9. #29
    lindarhead
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    I did have another thought actually along the lines of Ellen being a 'foundling' the family took in....well at least that suggestion was what prompted the thought. I'll bounce this idea off you all if I may.Is it possible that John was over in the W.Indies for whatever reason, and fathered a child with a local woman, and then again, for whatever reason, bought that child home with him to be reared in the bosom of his English family?

    Thoughts on that one please?...

    Linda

  10. #30
    Geoffers
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindarhead
    Anyhow to the good news....whilst I haven't yet found out why and where in the W.Indies Ellen was born, I have found her Baptizm record. She was baptised in Islington, Middlesex,in April 1840, on the same day as John & Eliz's baby son Frederick
    Are John + Elizabeth shown as parents and does the record you have viewed give an occupation and also an age/date of birth? Does the register include any gossip of the sort that I posted about Plumstead, Norfolk? (Unlikely in an urban parish, but you never know).

    Edit - Do you know where John HILL(S) was born in Sussex? Is it the same place as any of these other HILL(S) who served in the army? - Just in case he adopted a brother's child.

    Also, I mentioned that I couldn't find a Navy record to fit him; on the grounds that it is always worth checking for yourself (and it would be useful for you to know anyway), begin with TNA's catalogue

    In the word or phrase field enter - john hill*
    Restrict the year range in this case to 1830-1840
    In the department or series code, simply enter ADM

    You'll get several different hits, the entries which are most likely to contain anything are in ADM29 (Certificates of service), ADM45 (Pay and accounts), ADM73 (Pensioner Admission Papers), ADM157 (RM papers) - I couldn't find anything which stood out, but I mention it in case I missed something.

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